Legal rights of region-locked DVD drives on laptops

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MrAndreas

62 posts

Master Geek

#75133 13-Jan-2011 10:36

Hi fellow Geekzone members!

I purchased a new reputable brand laptop in December from a New Zealand retailer as a New Zealand consumer. I purchased this laptop because it is ultra-portable, has a good screen, good battery life, and has a DVD drive to allow me to watch movies at home and on my travels.

As people may be aware, by default DVD regions can only be changed five times, and, as such, I run commercial software to override this feature to allow fair use of the DVD drive and media I either purchase locally or from overseas or even rent wherever I may be in the world. Also, as a laptop is intended for world-wide use, one would think it unreasonable a drive would be locked to a specific region.

However, the biggest issue I have found is that I cannot use the drive locally within New Zealand with some of the commercial DVDs sold here as some local retailers legally stock and sell non-region 4 DVD media (such as The Warehouse) and this is with the third-party software running. The makers of the software (and various forums) have told me this is limitation of the make of drive used, not the software itself.

I have also found that most other make drives do not have this limitation and do allow fair use (via third-party software). I hence consider this to be a fault with the make of drive used. (Especially since it can be patched via third-part firmware to allow it to work as expected, but I do not want to void my warranty by doing this.)

The developers of the software I use have suggested that I ask the manufacturer of my laptop to swap out the DVD drive for another make that allows fair use. (They know of users who have been successful with such requests in the past with other big-brand laptop manufacturers.) But, before I do that I thought I would let other comment on my rights as a New Zealand consumer and/or suggest how I approach the manufacturer about this issue.

Please note that this has never been an issue in the past with my old laptop or any other computer I have owned, and I have owned a lot of them.

-Andreas

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#426785 13-Jan-2011 11:14

Is there any possibilty the commercial software (anyDVD?) will do an upgrade to support your particular drive?

It really annoys me how almost all PC dvd drives are region locked and virtually impossible to update the firmware to make them region free, whilst normal tv dvd players can be made region free with no problem.

I'd take it back, explain that because of this the laptop can't perform the function you bought it for (I don't know the exact consumer rights about that though)

bazzer

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#426788 13-Jan-2011 11:17

I don't think you'll get very far with a "fair use" argument. All DVD players sold in NZ are nominally Region 4. Unless the retailer specifically told you that it would play all regions, it's your mistake for assuming it would work that way.

I would say your issue should be with stores selling non Region 4 DVDs.

tigercorp

668 posts

Ultimate Geek

#426791 13-Jan-2011 11:27

Its been quite a while since I've played any dvd in a laptop, let alone a non region 4 one, but it certainly used to be the case that the majority of laptop dvd drives were region locked.

In fact, just checked the 3 laptops here in the house and all are region locked.

INAL but this Copyright Act appears to be the one relevant to your problem. It appears that Technological Prevention Measures are legal, so I can't see how you could claim fault and demand it be replaced.

Maybe if the retailer you purchased it from had advertised it as 'region free' or something similar, then you might have some recourse with them?

old3eyes

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#426832 13-Jan-2011 12:56

You could try this solution
http://www.dvdidle.com/dvd-region-free.htm

Regards,

Old3eyes

MrAndreas

62 posts

Master Geek

#426835 13-Jan-2011 13:00

jonb: Is there any possibilty the commercial software (anyDVD?) will do an upgrade to support your particular drive?

It really annoys me how almost all PC dvd drives are region locked and virtually impossible to update the firmware to make them region free, whilst normal tv dvd players can be made region free with no problem.

I'd take it back, explain that because of this the laptop can't perform the function you bought it for (I don't know the exact consumer rights about that though)

It's a hardware (well, firmware) limitation and not something that can be overridden by software such as AnyDVD, i.e., no upgrade to software like AnyDVD is possible to make it work. (Of course, software like AnyDVD could could flash the drive, but that's intrusive.) There are firmware patches, however, that is said to make make the drive region-free and allow software like AnyDVD to operate as designed. However, doing so would void the warranty.

I purchased the laptop on the December 27 (2010) but only had it in my possession a few days after this (as it had to be ordered in) and have only used it since about January 3 or so (I was too busy to touch it for days, but, I suspect, this won't mean anything to the retailer). I'm not sure I could take it back after this time but then I haven't tried, but yes, it definitely doesn't meet my expectations and requirements of the laptop.

The other option is to replace the DVD drive with another one. In fact, my system is also available with a Blu-ray drive instead of a DVD (this configuration is available in the States, not New Zealand) so I thought I may look into replacing the drive with a Blu-ray one instead. Of course, this option may also void the warranty (but less likely).

MrAndreas

62 posts

Master Geek

#426836 13-Jan-2011 13:02

old3eyes: You could try this solution
http://www.dvdidle.com/dvd-region-free.htm

Software like this won't work because of the type of drive I have.

MrAndreas

62 posts

Master Geek

#426838 13-Jan-2011 13:17

tigercorp: Its been quite a while since I've played any dvd in a laptop, let alone a non region 4 one, but it certainly used to be the case that the majority of laptop dvd drives were region locked.

In fact, just checked the 3 laptops here in the house and all are region locked.

INAL but this Copyright Act appears to be the one relevant to your problem. It appears that Technological Prevention Measures are legal, so I can't see how you could claim fault and demand it be replaced.

Maybe if the retailer you purchased it from had advertised it as 'region free' or something similar, then you might have some recourse with them?

Yes, your drives are most likely "region-locked" as Windows won't let you use them to play protected content before it has been set. However, there is software that overrides this, but the problem is that such software won't work with the type of drive that's in my system but works fine on all my other systems I have had in the past. As it turns out there are only a few makes of drives that have this limitation.

About the legal rights, according to Wikipedia: "Under New Zealand copyright law, DVD region codes and the mechanisms in DVD players to enforce them have no legal protection." But what does this really mean when it comes to my rights to request a replacement drive (of another make)?

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robjg63

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#426843 13-Jan-2011 13:25

What type of drive do you have?

As annoying as this problem is to you I think they have sold you a perfectly legally compliant device. The whole region lockig thing is of course a pain - and this part of the world most people wouldnt willingly buy a locked DVD player - but I understand in other places - like the states - its pretty rare for them ever to be unlocked....

Anyway - I understand - with xp you get something like 5 OS region changes and there are also something like 5 region changes in the hardware.

I tried that software that old3eyes mentioned about 5 years ago and it did work - why do you think it wont work for you?

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

robjg63

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#426845 13-Jan-2011 13:28

Is your drive on the list on non supported drives?

Give the make/model details and see what the GZers can find for you..

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

MrAndreas

62 posts

Master Geek

#426848 13-Jan-2011 13:50

robjg63: Is your drive on the list on non supported drives?

Give the make/model details and see what the GZers can find for you..

It doesn't work because a) the software fails with a message that says that it is possibly drive issue; b) the developers of the software have confirmed this to be a drive issue; c) it is well-documented all over the Internet that this make of drive cannot have its region overridden by software (other than flashing it with a hacked firmware).

The drive make is Matsh*ta (it is, just as the name implies ;) ) - it's actually a Panasonic drive. Windows 7 Professional 64-bit identifies the drive as "Matsh*ta DVD-RAM UJ892AS".

P.S. I cannot post the actual make of the drive because it contains the word sh*t! Ironic, isn't it!

bazzer

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#426850 13-Jan-2011 13:55

MrAndreas: About the legal rights, according to Wikipedia: "Under New Zealand copyright law, DVD region codes and the mechanisms in DVD players to enforce them have no legal protection." But what does this really mean when it comes to my rights to request a replacement drive (of another make)?

IANAL, but that means it's not illegal to work around DVD region codes etc. It doesn't mean that they have to help you. DVD drives come region locked, the fact your (legal, in NZ) software doesn't work on it doesn't mean they need to get you a new drive that will work. The caveat is that if the retailer told you it would work a certain way (i.e. play DVDs from all over the world) then you might have some recourse under the CGA.

MrAndreas

62 posts

Master Geek

#426871 13-Jan-2011 15:08

bazzer:
MrAndreas: About the legal rights, according to Wikipedia: "Under New Zealand copyright law, DVD region codes and the mechanisms in DVD players to enforce them have no legal protection." But what does this really mean when it comes to my rights to request a replacement drive (of another make)?

IANAL, but that means it's not illegal to work around DVD region codes etc. It doesn't mean that they have to help you. DVD drives come region locked, the fact your (legal, in NZ) software doesn't work on it doesn't mean they need to get you a new drive that will work. The caveat is that if the retailer told you it would work a certain way (i.e. play DVDs from all over the world) then you might have some recourse under the CGA.

I have an expectation of drives based on many years of experience and as such did not think to ask the retailer about it not working as expected. After all, one cannot be expected to ask everything about a product that appears obvious. If people did that retailers would not have time to make any sales. I hope this will be considered when I return it, because return it I will with the option of them having the drive replaced with one that works as I expect it to work.

Note that I have since called the store to let them know I am bringing back the laptop this weekend but to note and date my claim on the invoice for today.

dolsen

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#426872 13-Jan-2011 15:27

MrAndreas:
robjg63: Is your drive on the list on non supported drives?

Give the make/model details and see what the GZers can find for you..

It doesn't work because a) the software fails with a message that says that it is possibly drive issue; b) the developers of the software have confirmed this to be a drive issue; c) it is well-documented all over the Internet that this make of drive cannot have its region overridden by software (other than flashing it with a hacked firmware).

The drive make is Matsh*ta (it is, just as the name implies ;) ) - it's actually a Panasonic drive. Windows 7 Professional 64-bit identifies the drive as "Matsh*ta DVD-RAM UJ892AS".

P.S. I cannot post the actual make of the drive because it contains the word sh*t! Ironic, isn't it!

See if there is a way to back up the current firmware of the drive, back it up and then flash with the rpc-1 firmware. If there is an issue that needs the warranty, flash it back to the default firmware. If the drive dies completely, it is unlikely that the service agent would be able to see that the drive is running non default firmware.
I also doubt very much that they would even notice, even if you left the non default firmware on there.
One caveat - make sure that the laptops bios doesn't insist on seeing the specific version of firmware on the drive before booting, had a dell that would not boot with a different response string from the dvd drive.

freitasm

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#426875 13-Jan-2011 15:44

bazzer:
MrAndreas: About the legal rights, according to Wikipedia: "Under New Zealand copyright law, DVD region codes and the mechanisms in DVD players to enforce them have no legal protection." But what does this really mean when it comes to my rights to request a replacement drive (of another make)?

IANAL, but that means it's not illegal to work around DVD region codes etc. It doesn't mean that they have to help you. DVD drives come region locked, the fact your (legal, in NZ) software doesn't work on it doesn't mean they need to get you a new drive that will work. The caveat is that if the retailer told you it would work a certain way (i.e. play DVDs from all over the world) then you might have some recourse under the CGA.

Best interpretation. Just because you have the right to circumvent regional protection it doesn't mean manufacturers have to give you an unlocked drive.

I don't think the OP has any recourse really. It's not in the product description "unlocked DVD drive for all regions" is it?

Also, to the OP, Wikipedia is not a legal reference (neither is Geekzone)... If you strongly believe you have a case, consult a lawyer.

Buttonmash

361 posts

Ultimate Geek

#426880 13-Jan-2011 16:06

The drive make is Matsh*ta (it is, just as the name implies ;) ) - it's actually a Panasonic drive. Windows 7 Professional 64-bit identifies the drive as "Matsh*ta DVD-RAM UJ892AS".

P.S. I cannot post the actual make of the drive because it contains the word sh*t! Ironic, isn't it!

FWIW Panasonic used to be called Matsush1ta up until 1 October 2008 when they changed their name to Pansonic.

Prior to that Panasonic was only one of their many brand names which includes National, Panasonic, Technics and now (Since 2009) Sanyo.

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