Utterly Disappointed with Telecom's 500 GB plan. No shaping? Yeah right.

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Utterly Disappointed with Telecom's 500 GB plan. No shaping? Yeah right.

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#768432 24-Feb-2013 10:58

mercutio:
eXDee: Yeah, Its not shaping, I think it's just congestion in the evening.

I read talk of issues with some ISPs being from a large amount of customers being migrated to the EUBA handover but I don't know if this is accurate or relevant.

So far smokeping is showing a pretty flat line so I think at least some of this was fixed yesterday.

It seemed the EUBA was better last night, but bad again tonight. Go figure.

While EUBA doesn't enforce handover shaping as required in the ComCom regulated UBA spec, the handover is still a fixed capacity and with no CIR or SLA on DSL it's very much a best effort service.

As a side note if you're on an interetnet user of any ISP on a) a conklin or b) a UBA connection, there is a fairly good chance now that you're being impacted by congestion at times.

mercutio

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#768438 24-Feb-2013 11:13

sbiddle:
mercutio:
eXDee: Yeah, Its not shaping, I think it's just congestion in the evening.

I read talk of issues with some ISPs being from a large amount of customers being migrated to the EUBA handover but I don't know if this is accurate or relevant.

So far smokeping is showing a pretty flat line so I think at least some of this was fixed yesterday.

It seemed the EUBA was better last night, but bad again tonight. Go figure.

While EUBA doesn't enforce handover shaping as required in the ComCom regulated UBA spec, the handover is still a fixed capacity and with no CIR or SLA on DSL it's very much a best effort service.

As a side note if you're on an interetnet user of any ISP on a) a conklin or b) a UBA connection, there is a fairly good chance now that you're being impacted by congestion at times.

I wonder how much of the impact comes from providers like Telecom having 500gb caps. Australia got screwed over by high caps. And really at the end of the day, if there's some shaping of bittorrent etc and it reduces handover congestion, that's actually a good thing.

sbiddle

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#768447 24-Feb-2013 11:40

mercutio: I wonder how much of the impact comes from providers like Telecom having 500gb caps. Australia got screwed over by high caps. And really at the end of the day, if there's some shaping of bittorrent etc and it reduces handover congestion, that's actually a good thing.

Probably a lot.

To use 500GB in a month is an average sustained throughput of just on 200kbps. This is over 4 x greater than what the Commece Commission thing regulated broadband offerings in NZ should offer.

Handovers are still a physical limitation that exists, and as we all know TCP does start to do some strange things when links exceed 75% utilisation.

In many ways this gets back to debates over network neutrality and unlimited plans. At the end of the day network neutrality is a myth. It has not, can not, and never will exist.

mercutio

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#768453 24-Feb-2013 12:15

sbiddle:
mercutio: I wonder how much of the impact comes from providers like Telecom having 500gb caps. Australia got screwed over by high caps. And really at the end of the day, if there's some shaping of bittorrent etc and it reduces handover congestion, that's actually a good thing.

Probably a lot.

To use 500GB in a month is an average sustained throughput of just on 200kbps. This is over 4 x greater than what the Commece Commission thing regulated broadband offerings in NZ should offer.

Handovers are still a physical limitation that exists, and as we all know TCP does start to do some strange things when links exceed 75% utilisation.

In many ways this gets back to debates over network neutrality and unlimited plans. At the end of the day network neutrality is a myth. It has not, can not, and never will exist.

I think the 75% utilisation thing is very rule of thumb, and also I think it's more likely that utilisation is significantly above 75%. If you look at the graphs it seems utilisation peaks at 35msec or thereabouts, and from there it just seems to drop more and more packets. This suggests that packets are being buffered for so many msec rather than number of packets, or that spread of packet sizes is pretty even. So in essence the pipe is completely full not nearly full.

Back when I had congestion issues I hit the latency more so than the packet loss. And I figured the buffers were too big. I still think that they're a bit big. But once you're at capacity you can only selectively drop packets or inselectively drop packets. Tail drop, or AQM...

But in essence with the current situation there's very likely to be noticable browsing delays.

Also peak utilisation is likely to be much higher than average utilisation for home users. I used to find myself doing most of my downloads between 7:00 pm and 11:00 pm, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

Sure if I was sufficiently motivated I could do my downloads "off-peak", but that'd require some kind of scheduling etc. And that's more likely to be if I wanted to download something huge which hasn't happened in a long time. In contrast, when I was using dialup I used to do most of my large downloads over night, as it really slowed the net down downloading, and it took hours for most things to download.

eXDee

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#768464 24-Feb-2013 12:36

The congestion is pretty visible on the graphs, and drops off pretty quickly after peak times, at 12am ish.

Ragnor

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#768639 24-Feb-2013 22:02

eXDee: The congestion is pretty visible on the graphs, and drops off pretty quickly after peak times, at 12am ish.

Yes it's been going on for weeks now too.. hopefully some upgrades are happening behind the scenes.

Charlesyes

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#778804 12-Mar-2013 21:15

Ragnor:
eXDee: The congestion is pretty visible on the graphs, and drops off pretty quickly after peak times, at 12am ish.

Yes it's been going on for weeks now too.. hopefully some upgrades are happening behind the scenes.

Seem it is not happening yet. Just switch to 500GB from the old 120GB plan less than 2 weeks time. Same house, same PC and same moderm but the slower speed compared to 120GB plan is quite noticeable. Sometimes even youtube need buffering...

15.13Mbps result from telecome's speedtest site before I am writing this. But so what, the actual performance is worse than the past. If there was no cap or other kind of limit, there must be something not right somewhere Telecom responsible for.

p.s I have been telecom's customer more than 10 years...

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mercutio

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#778812 12-Mar-2013 21:24

Charlesyes:
Ragnor:
eXDee: The congestion is pretty visible on the graphs, and drops off pretty quickly after peak times, at 12am ish.

Yes it's been going on for weeks now too.. hopefully some upgrades are happening behind the scenes.

Seem it is not happening yet. Just switch to 500GB from the old 120GB plan less than 2 weeks time. Same house, same PC and same moderm but the slower speed compared to 120GB plan is quite noticeable. Sometimes even youtube need buffering...

15.13Mbps result from telecome's speedtest site before I am writing this. But so what, the actual performance is worse than the past. If there was no cap or other kind of limit, there must be something not right somewhere Telecom responsible for.

p.s I have been telecom's customer more than 10 years...

this is like saying you've used msdos for more than 10 years. it doesn't make it any beter.

plambrechtsen

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#778813 12-Mar-2013 21:28

Charlesyes:
Ragnor:
eXDee: The congestion is pretty visible on the graphs, and drops off pretty quickly after peak times, at 12am ish.

Yes it's been going on for weeks now too.. hopefully some upgrades are happening behind the scenes.

Seem it is not happening yet. Just switch to 500GB from the old 120GB plan less than 2 weeks time. Same house, same PC and same moderm but the slower speed compared to 120GB plan is quite noticeable. Sometimes even youtube need buffering...

15.13Mbps result from telecome's speedtest site before I am writing this. But so what, the actual performance is worse than the past. If there was no cap or other kind of limit, there must be something not right somewhere Telecom responsible for.

p.s I have been telecom's customer more than 10 years...

You could have been moved from "fast" aka non-interleaving to interleaving as part of your plan change.

Either call the BBHD on 0800 225598 and get them to check, or pm me your line number or email it to pl at telecom.co.nz, but be aware I will probably say you need a master filter.

Charlesyes

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#778848 12-Mar-2013 21:52

plambrechtsen:
Charlesyes:
Ragnor:
eXDee: The congestion is pretty visible on the graphs, and drops off pretty quickly after peak times, at 12am ish.

Yes it's been going on for weeks now too.. hopefully some upgrades are happening behind the scenes.

Seem it is not happening yet. Just switch to 500GB from the old 120GB plan less than 2 weeks time. Same house, same PC and same moderm but the slower speed compared to 120GB plan is quite noticeable. Sometimes even youtube need buffering...

15.13Mbps result from telecome's speedtest site before I am writing this. But so what, the actual performance is worse than the past. If there was no cap or other kind of limit, there must be something not right somewhere Telecom responsible for.

p.s I have been telecom's customer more than 10 years...

You could have been moved from "fast" aka non-interleaving to interleaving as part of your plan change.

Either call the BBHD on 0800 225598 and get them to check, or pm me your line number or email it to pl at telecom.co.nz, but be aware I will probably say you need a master filter.

Chur. Just pmed you. Thanks

plambrechtsen

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#778861 12-Mar-2013 22:16

And the bitloading graph.

actual.bitrate 18292
attainable.bitrate 22272
attenuation 4

So..

Interleaving off.. see what difference that makes.

Then perhaps a master filter.

And out of interest... You wouldn't have a Tivo would you?

Charlesyes

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Wannabe Geek

#778872 12-Mar-2013 22:33

plambrechtsen: And the bitloading graph.

actual.bitrate 18292
attainable.bitrate 22272
attenuation 4

So..

Interleaving off.. see what difference that makes.

Then perhaps a master filter.

And out of interest... You wouldn't have a Tivo would you?

Is that a...stat chat to my line? gotta do some research on bitload

.

Tivo? nahhh, never got one. but recently I am trying an Android device from my friend. It works ...may be like Tivo, connect both my broadband and TV. Then I could browse website and even youtube on my TV.

Charlesyes

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Wannabe Geek

#782471 15-Mar-2013 20:07

Thanks plambrechtsen again.

The broadband performance is much better now after calling telecom to turn the interleaving off.

A5X

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#782816 16-Mar-2013 23:39

So is this 500GB plan shaped or what, is it worth ditching slingshot to move to telecom?

Getting tired of have paying for stacks of data in GB size, but cant play a you tube clip at 1080p without endless buffering.
It is like have a super-car with 700 kilowatt engine, but the throttle has a governor to stop you from accelerating and cant go over 50 kph, basically can never get there.

I have had Telecom calling me today to get me off Slingshot and onto Telecom. I told them I would think about it first.

They are claiming that they don't shape like Slingshot does. Problem is both company's make those claims and back it up with nothing, who do I believe?

wasabi2k

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#782822 17-Mar-2013 00:00

I use ~300GB a month on Telecom's 500GB plan. 0 issues with throughput at any time of day.

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