$100 call to satellite network on 92 year-old's bill

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › $100 call to satellite network on 92 year-old's bill

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alasta

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#2124408 12-Nov-2018 19:32

I received one of these calls last week and my phone tried to call the number back when I tapped the notification. I realised what it was doing within a couple of seconds and hit the hang up button and there have been no charges on my account so I think I must have hung up in time.

AKLWestie

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#2124423 12-Nov-2018 20:08

A good way to protect people that are less tech savvy from this kind of scam is to have a prepaid mobile, not on account.

In your case, since your mother in law already have a spark compatible handset, you can consider moving it to Spark prepay or Skinny prepay. Then, you or your wife can top it up once a month, but just leave a few dollars to cover unexpected spends (e.g. calls, texts etc).

For example, with Skinny, I can set an auto top up of $16 every 28 days, to cover my $16 plan. Then I just do a one off top up of five to 10 dollars so I can buy add-ons when I wanted.

Do not pick to auto top up when balance is low option though.

In this way, say she called a wrong number again, the maximum lost is only the remaining credit.

jlittle

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#2124620 13-Nov-2018 10:02

alasta: I received one of these calls last week and my phone tried to call the number back when I tapped the notification. I realised what it was doing within a couple of seconds and hit the hang up button ...

Thank you, I think this is likely the explanation. For her age, my mother-in-law is very tech literate, but her eyesight lets her down sometimes, and she won't see something see's not expecting to see.

Is it possible for you to give more detail about "tapping the notification"? I'd much appreciate it. Like, what phone, OS, was the phone locked? Would it have been possible to "pocket tap" the notification? I'm wondering if there's a setting that could be set more tightly.

jlittle

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#2124625 13-Nov-2018 10:07

AKLWestie: A good way to protect people that are less tech savvy from this kind of scam is to have a prepaid mobile...

Yes, I've been meaning to do this for a while. She doesn't like change, which makes any action like this a mission, to be carefully planned.

jlittle

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#2124633 13-Nov-2018 10:19

I now think this charge is obviously a wangiri ("one ring" in Japanese English) scam call; the Thuraya network is a favourite of theirs. If just tapping a notification is enough to place the call, it's not surprising how things unfolded.

Why do our telephone companies not take more effective action to stop this fraud? IMO they are complicit in the crime by their negligence. No call with a spoofed number should be accepted by them, and known wangiri scam destinations should be blacklisted, or made operator only. I suspect that they get significant revenue from terminating these calls, so are slow to take action.

sbiddle

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#2124638 13-Nov-2018 10:29

jlittle: I now think this charge is obviously a wangiri ("one ring" in Japanese English) scam call; the Thuraya network is a favourite of theirs. If just tapping a notification is enough to place the call, it's not surprising how things unfolded. Why do our telephone companies not take more effective action to stop this fraud? IMO they are complicit in the crime by their negligence. No call with a spoofed number should be accepted by them, and known wangiri scam destinations should be blacklisted, or made operator only. I suspect that they get significant revenue from terminating these calls, so are slow to take action.

As for blocking known scam numbers, this is done routinely in the telco world.

As for ANI/CID verification that's pretty much impossible. A call can pass through multiple networks before it reaches the destination number and there is no way to prove a ANI/CID is not legit.

Telcos such as those in NZ don't mark money from these scams. If anything they lose money themselves refunding people who get caught out and often complain loudly. Actual margins on the calls themselves can be minimal - the profit is made by the provider of the number range or in the case of premium numbers the owner of the destination number.

stinger

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#2124640 13-Nov-2018 10:31

Why do our telephone companies not take more effective action to stop this fraud? IMO they are complicit in the crime by their negligence. No call with a spoofed number should be accepted by them, and known wangiri scam destinations should be blacklisted, or made operator only. I suspect that they get significant revenue from terminating these calls, so are slow to take action.

No crime has been committed. Your MIL made a call, and Spark charged the rate that was listed on the website.

It would be near on impossible to block spoofed caller id numbers without blocking a large number of legitimate calls. For example with my Australian VoIP provider the outbound caller id is my Australian mobile number (the DID is a landline number). Technically that call did not come from a mobile network, and therefore would be blocked. Another example would be 2talk in New Zealand who allow global numbers (local numbers from other parts of the world) as your DID.

Yes, the telcos could block 'expensive' countries from being dialed automatically. I guess for them it is a risk vs reward situation. There are plenty of legit satellite phone numbers in use.

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wellygary

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#2124649 13-Nov-2018 10:48

Does she regularly make many international calls??, if not you could always bar international calling on her phone?...

alasta

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#2124650 13-Nov-2018 10:52

jlittle:
alasta: I received one of these calls last week and my phone tried to call the number back when I tapped the notification. I realised what it was doing within a couple of seconds and hit the hang up button ...
Thank you, I think this is likely the explanation. For her age, my mother-in-law is very tech literate, but her eyesight lets her down sometimes, and she won't see something see's not expecting to see. Is it possible for you to give more detail about "tapping the notification"? I'd much appreciate it. Like, what phone, OS, was the phone locked? Would it have been possible to "pocket tap" the notification? I'm wondering if there's a setting that could be set more tightly.

I have an iPhone 8 Plus. From memory I think I saw the notification, unlocked the device, then tapped the notification on the expectation that it would just open the phone app and show me the details of the missed call. I was taken by surprise when it suddenly called the number as a result of me just tapping the notification - that is very poor design IMO.

Bung

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#2124654 13-Nov-2018 11:02

stinger:
No crime has been committed.

There are plenty of legit satellite phone numbers in use.

No crime? Yeah right. By legit do you mean the majority that don't make hang up calls by the thousands.

I remember when Telcom took a moral stand and stopped supplying service to the dial up sex call industry. It all moved to a block of Tuvalu numbers and with the assistance of Telecom International continued at full speed without leaving Auckland.

Oblivian

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#2124657 13-Nov-2018 11:14

Do NZ Carriers make use of the FDN (Fixed dial number) blocks?

You can specify the only extensions that will work. Sure, it won't work for spoofed intl calls with local prefix. But would likely stop any intl calls like that other than required/allowed

jlittle

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#2124660 13-Nov-2018 11:25

wellygary:
Does she regularly make many international calls??, if not you could always bar international calling on her phone?...

She is English, with family in England, including two of her children and their families.

freitasm

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#2124662 13-Nov-2018 11:32

Just received:

During International Fraud Awareness Week, a global effort to minimise the impact of fraud through awareness and education, the NZ Telecommunications Forum (TCF) is shining the spotlight on scam calling in New Zealand, encouraging consumers to: Stop and think. Is this for real?

There are several types of phone scams known to be active in New Zealand, and scammers are becoming increasingly sophisticated in their approach, often having access to personal information obtained through third party sources. They may even use advanced systems to make it appear as though they are calling from a genuine New Zealand phone number, known as caller ID spoofing.

Wangiri calls have been on the rise in 2018, which are typically missed calls from an overseas number, with the scammer hanging up after one ring or less. Once the number is called back by the victim, the call is then charged at premium rates.

Technical support scammers tell their victims there is a problem with their computer or internet service, and ask them to download software that gives them remote access in order to pretend to fix the problem. In reality, when scammers access a victim’s computer, they use the opportunity to capture bank details, passwords, and other personal information in order to commit fraud.

To deal with these issues, the TCF has formalised a range of processes for the telco industry to deal with instances of scam callers in the form of a Scam Calling Prevention Code. Processes outlined in the code help the industry react more quickly to any incidence of phone scams reported by the public, to block calls from numbers used by confirmed scammers. The Code also allows for data sharing with other agencies such as NetSafe, CERT NZ and the New Zealand Police.

“We rely on members of the public to alert their telecommunications service provider to any suspicious calls so that they can investigate and take action” says TCF CEO Geoff Thorn. “If you receive a suspected scam call, write down the details and report it to your telco immediately."

New Zealanders fall victim to scams every day. Data from NetSafe shows that between January and September 2018 almost 8,000 New Zealanders reported a scam to the organisation, with more than $24.7 million lost to scammers. The losses are almost five times higher compared to the same period last year, from reported losses alone.

“Consumers need to proceed with caution when receiving calls asking for personal or financial information, or when calling back a missed call from an unknown overseas number. The best advice we can offer consumers is before you act: Stop and think. Is this for real?” says Thorn.

Goosey

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#2124672 13-Nov-2018 11:57

Id replace her low end samsung with an even lower end 'simple' mobile.

One that simply has a keypad, answer / end buttons.

Plenty around.

She could then choose to answer or not and if needing to dial...then dial the number or use the simple phonebook on the phone.

Gurezaemon

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#2124697 13-Nov-2018 12:43

jlittle: I now think this charge is obviously a wangiri ("one ring" in Japanese English) scam call....

(Jp>En translator here) To be REALLY pedantic, wangiri (ワン切り) is the English "one" (for making the phone ring once) and the giri is from Japanese kiru (切る) literally meaning to cut, but also used to mean hang up. So more correctly, "one ring, then hang up"

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