Spark to close its 3G network in late 2025

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Spark to close its 3G network in late 2025

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#3056197 29-Mar-2023 13:37

johno1234:
Linux:

@johno1234 Did you read my quote to that post?

4G coverage is artificially shrunk at the moment due to 3G

I'll believe 4G improves when I see it.

Why are you so negative? 4G power output is turned down so the coverage footprint is not better than 3G for a number of reasons

openmedia

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#3056203 29-Mar-2023 14:05

richms:

openmedia:

Excellent news. Doesn't help relatives who keep phones for 5+ years. And What happens if you've moved between networks - compatibility isn't broad enough.

iPhones do volte fine. If you buy bottom of the barrel phones from the supermarket then you won't have the same longevity of support, but you get what you pay for.

If some 3+ year old out of support android ZTE or huawai trash tier when new phone doesn't do it, no big deal IMO.

2+ years is plenty of time to plan ahead to replace a phone, but it will be a repeat of the analog shut off, the CDMA shut off, the TV switchover, etc etc where some people whine and complain about it that they were not warned, had no idea, don't want the change etc and they have to just be ignored.

None of my older relatives can afford an iPhone and tend to have basic phones they expect to last 5+ years.

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

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#3056205 29-Mar-2023 14:14

@openmedia Look at the notice time frame they have got 2+ years!

allan

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#3056208 29-Mar-2023 14:25

openmedia:

openmedia:

Does this mean they'll stop selling phones that don't support VoLTE? There are still a huge number of devices in circulation, including my Nokia 7.1, that won't do VoLTE on their network. As a consumer if i'm buying a new device today I want to use it until atleast 2026+.

Oh and Skinny has tried to enable VoLTE and every time it broke all voice calling and in some cases also broke my SMS support.

Odd because my 5 year old Galaxy A8 (just replaced last week because battery life got too painful) has been operating on VoLTE with Skinny without any issue at all for ages.

Silvrav

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#3056209 29-Mar-2023 14:26

Just got the text from skinny as well which obviously make sense as it's spark

FROM SKINNY: Hey there! Just letting you know that we're planning on closing down our 3G network toward the end of 2025. Don't worry, we'll be in touch by the end of the year if there's anything you need to do. Read more at skinny.co.nz/help/4g-ready

wratterus

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#3056225 29-Mar-2023 15:26

You've got to crack a few eggs to make an omelette. This can't come soon enough.

robjg63

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#3056228 29-Mar-2023 15:30

Shoudn't be too many people with issues in 2 years time, but it does make me wonder how Android works.

I think that providers can lock out certain functionality that a phone may otherwise be able to provide.

I am on Skinny (so Spark network).

My phone (2022 Galaxy A33) has VoLTE and wifi calling. You can turn Wifi Calling on/off - but there is no option to select (or not) VoLTE.

All the stuff you find from overseas says that VoLTE should be user selectable.

My wife has an elderly Galaxy S7 that according to all posts overseas supports VoLTE. Again, there is no option to select this (or not) and it appears that this phone isnt supported by Spark. So the Telco can nobble some OS options or get the 'local' firmware tweaked.

The internet shows many many pages of 'this is how to turn on VoLTE for the Galaxy S7.... Doesnt work here.

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boosacnoodle

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#3056235 29-Mar-2023 15:40

This is really pleasing to see.

Can someone explain in more detail the issues with pumping the power up on 4G? This is a geeks forum after all, rather than just “reasons”.

gzt

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#3056237 29-Mar-2023 15:49

I seem to remember 4G and or 4G data can be toggled in sim control for some phones. It's not the same as toggling LTE but obviously LTE is not going to work in that scenario. On the other side Telco can decide not to provision LTE for some devices for genuine compatibility reasons.

gzt

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#3056239 29-Mar-2023 15:53

Two years seems like a long time. A purchaser of a mid to high end phone from Spark probably expects it to be functional for five years. My shelved Nokia 7 something without LTE support will be older than five years at that time. I'm not aware of any others sold by Spark recently?

CcMaN

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#3056242 29-Mar-2023 16:00

My frustration with this 3G shutdown is the fact that I've had a number of conversations with reasonably technical people who like buying less mainstream android phones Google Pixel, OnePlus, Motorola, Sony etc who don't realise that just because their device currently works on 4G or 5G (for data) that voice/SMS is still reliant on 3G.

What makes this situation worse in my opinion is most of these phones have support for VoLTE but for whatever reason either the carrier, manufacturer, or both haven't enabled the handset to work on the network.

I still haven't got a clear answer why handsets that are VoLTE capable (but aren't sold by the carrier themselves) cannot be at least enabled to work (even if the carrier will never officially support them). I get that the carriers can't guarantee every handset will work on their network, but surely these should be edge cases rather than effectively blocking most handsets that the carrier themselves did not sell.

We have such a limited market of handsets available in NZ via the carriers, but some of the phone manufacturers above are actively selling in NZ (just not via the carriers), people will legitimately question why their brand new 5G compatible phone (with VoLTE support) will stop working for phone calls and SMS after the shutdown date.

I am afraid that unless this issue is addressed when 3G is eventually switched off, this will lead to less competition in the handset market in NZ, where less mainstream handset manufacturers will no longer be able to sell direct to consumer (or via the likes of PBTech) in NZ.

I'm also concerned that we will have a lot of consumers buying new phones in the coming year, not realising the potential VoLTE issues that will arise and effectively have a brick after the shutdown date. We really need the manufacturers and carriers working together on this.

quickymart

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#3056243 29-Mar-2023 16:05

Wow, things have changed a lot since 2009. Farewell Telecom XT - I still remember all your issues in the early days of network crashes. Fortunately those are in the distant past now.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/3362346/Network-builders-chief-quits-as-Telecoms-XT-fails-again

timmyh

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#3056248 29-Mar-2023 16:27

CcMaN:

My frustration with this 3G shutdown is the fact that I've had a number of conversations with reasonably technical people who like buying less mainstream android phones Google Pixel, OnePlus, Motorola, Sony etc who don't realise that just because their device currently works on 4G or 5G (for data) that voice/SMS is still reliant on 3G.

What makes this situation worse in my opinion is most of these phones have support for VoLTE but for whatever reason either the carrier, manufacturer, or both haven't enabled the handset to work on the network.

I still haven't got a clear answer why handsets that are VoLTE capable (but aren't sold by the carrier themselves) cannot be at least enabled to work (even if the carrier will never officially support them). I get that the carriers can't guarantee every handset will work on their network, but surely these should be edge cases rather than effectively blocking most handsets that the carrier themselves did not sell.

Okay here goes:

Firstly, the VoLTE standard is very open and leaves quite a few implementation decisions having to be agreed between the mobile operator and their IMS provider and the phone vendor. This means that VoLTE implementations are different in various ways across networks. It is really crazy that it was not better defined by the standards body back in the day and it has created a lot of problems across the industry globally.

Secondly, let's get iPhone out of the way as all iPhone carrier settings are managed in the iOS so no matter what SIM inserted in the world into an iPhone from anywhere else in the world, it will work for VoLTE and other carrier specific things that have been tested and approved. But this testing only needs to be done in detail with iPhones the first time on a given network and then it will carry over to other models with regression testing only. This is an elegantly managed solution from Apple and the work required by the operator is efficiently utilised.

Thirdly, however for Android, due to what I think is complete mismanagement by Google/Alphabet whatever, there is no such centrally managed settings mechanism baked into Android OS. Every phone manufacturer + mobile operator is left having to implement and test VoLTE rigorously with the first phones from that phone vendor. From a mobile operator's perspective this is a nightmare as it takes up the same amount of resource to work with someone like One Plus or Xiaomi or even Pixel for a phone that might sell in tiny numbers as it does with Samsung for their models that sell in huge numbers.

And for older Android 4G phones, even if they can support VoLTE in some markets and might've sold in large numbers in NZ before anyone had VoLTE live here, the phone vendor doesn't have the resource to go back and enable VoLTE for NZ.

Hope this provides some context.

matisyahu

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#3056253 29-Mar-2023 17:04

Looking forward to 850MHz and 2100MHz being deployed for 5G - if this article is anything to go by:

https://www.itnews.com.au/news/telstra-completes-5g-tests-using-repurposed-3g-spectrum-561974

It should mean improved 5G coverage particularly when it comes to places outside the heavily built up metro areas. Regarding 3G, the removal of it should force handset vendors to improve their VoLTE and 5G support in New Zealand even if it simply because of roaming which probably explains why the Pixel phone has suddenly started properly supporting New Zealand carriers with their QPR beta builds, it should hopefully also mean forcing some standardisation around VoLTE so that people don't have to wait for VoLTE to arrive because it is properly supported out of the box.

timmyh:

CcMaN:

My frustration with this 3G shutdown is the fact that I've had a number of conversations with reasonably technical people who like buying less mainstream android phones Google Pixel, OnePlus, Motorola, Sony etc who don't realise that just because their device currently works on 4G or 5G (for data) that voice/SMS is still reliant on 3G.

What makes this situation worse in my opinion is most of these phones have support for VoLTE but for whatever reason either the carrier, manufacturer, or both haven't enabled the handset to work on the network.

I still haven't got a clear answer why handsets that are VoLTE capable (but aren't sold by the carrier themselves) cannot be at least enabled to work (even if the carrier will never officially support them). I get that the carriers can't guarantee every handset will work on their network, but surely these should be edge cases rather than effectively blocking most handsets that the carrier themselves did not sell.

Okay here goes:

Firstly, the VoLTE standard is very open and leaves quite a few implementation decisions having to be agreed between the mobile operator and their IMS provider and the phone vendor. This means that VoLTE implementations are different in various ways across networks. It is really crazy that it was not better defined by the standards body back in the day and it has created a lot of problems across the industry globally.

Secondly, let's get iPhone out of the way as all iPhone carrier settings are managed in the iOS so no matter what SIM inserted in the world into an iPhone from anywhere else in the world, it will work for VoLTE and other carrier specific things that have been tested and approved. But this testing only needs to be done in detail with iPhones the first time on a given network and then it will carry over to other models with regression testing only. This is an elegantly managed solution from Apple and the work required by the operator is efficiently utilised.

Thirdly, however for Android, due to what I think is complete mismanagement by Google/Alphabet whatever, there is no such centrally managed settings mechanism baked into Android OS. Every phone manufacturer + mobile operator is left having to implement and test VoLTE rigorously with the first phones from that phone vendor. From a mobile operator's perspective this is a nightmare as it takes up the same amount of resource to work with someone like One Plus or Xiaomi or even Pixel for a phone that might sell in tiny numbers as it does with Samsung for their models that sell in huge numbers.

And for older Android 4G phones, even if they can support VoLTE in some markets and might've sold in large numbers in NZ before anyone had VoLTE live here, the phone vendor doesn't have the resource to go back and enable VoLTE for NZ.

Hope this provides some context.

Does Google Carrier Settings as found in the Play Store - does that address VoLTE settings? The reason why I ask is the whole static carrier configuration should have been moved away from way back in the days of Android 5.1 yet it appears that OEMs insist on baking carrier/region specific builds rather than having a single build and have the carrier settings sitting with the carrier itself or a server run by the OEM.

https://source.android.com/docs/core/connect/carrier

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old3eyes

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#3056256 29-Mar-2023 17:09

Oh no my hand me down phones in the cars glove boxes will have to be upgraded. Oh the cost 😂

Regards,

Old3eyes

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