Fibre connection with retained copper phone costs $65 extra!?

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Fibre connection with retained copper phone costs $65 extra!?

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Chorus

#3157824 9-Nov-2023 23:34

snnet:

Just a general question about UPS/backup for ONTs - I've had a few customers who have a UPS but the other end doesn't seem to in the event of a widespread power outage - this is from when the power outage starts. Is this normal? Or should it be expected that the network end have some backup supply as well, at least for a few hours? Areas are Northpower and Chorus

UFB fibre is run on GPON - gigabyte passive optical network. The passive means that the network in the street does not need power. As long as the exchange building has power, then the network will continue to run. All exchanges have back up power with redundancy in place so there's no technical explanation for what you are reporting.

The only explanation I can think of is where there is a fibre cable cut in tandem with a power outage - but the driver of no service in that scenario is the cable cut, not the power being out (if an ONT/router UPS exists).

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#3157828 9-Nov-2023 23:59

Moving your internet to fibre and retaining your phone service on copper is a bit like installing a separate electricity line with its own meter to your new garage - you end up paying two power bills (one for your garage, one for your house), which is all a bit unnecessary when the same thing could be accomplished cheaper with a single power connection servicing both buildings.

It's basically the same thing with phone/internet. When phone and internet are both delivered via a copper line, your RSP pays a single access charge to Chorus. When both services are delivered over fibre, your RSP still pays a single access charge to the LFC. But where your phone is on copper and your internet is on fibre, your RSP is forced to pay for two separate access charges - one for each technology. It's wasteful and pretty unnecessary in the vast majority of use cases, and a UPS would take care of the rest.

It's all a moot point - Spark is progressively withdrawing their PSTN phone network and Chorus is withdrawing copper line access everywhere that fibre is available by 2026 - Chorus has also publically stated that we intend to be a fibre only business within 10 years. It's only a matter of time before the OP will not be able to use that copper connection anyway.

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

BlargHonk

147 posts

Master Geek

#3157859 10-Nov-2023 08:34

Rodders1nz:

stick:

UPS for ONT+Router: https://www.constantvigil.com/

Tbh, I haven't used this product, however I constantly see it recommended here

Have got one, can confirm works as advertised and would recommend.

Those are a lot cheaper than I expected. Which one would you recommend for keeping the ONT and Router going in a power cut? Is the Mk2 worth the extra cost?

nztim

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TEAMnetwork

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#3157860 10-Nov-2023 08:34

The investment in a UPS by the OP would be paid back 2-3 months instead of paying an additional line which the OP would eventually migrate from when NEAX/Copper is shut down in his area.

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

snnet

1410 posts

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#3158102 10-Nov-2023 16:56

Wheelbarrow01:

snnet:

Just a general question about UPS/backup for ONTs - I've had a few customers who have a UPS but the other end doesn't seem to in the event of a widespread power outage - this is from when the power outage starts. Is this normal? Or should it be expected that the network end have some backup supply as well, at least for a few hours? Areas are Northpower and Chorus

UFB fibre is run on GPON - gigabyte passive optical network. The passive means that the network in the street does not need power. As long as the exchange building has power, then the network will continue to run. All exchanges have back up power with redundancy in place so there's no technical explanation for what you are reporting.

The only explanation I can think of is where there is a fibre cable cut in tandem with a power outage - but the driver of no service in that scenario is the cable cut, not the power being out (if an ONT/router UPS exists).

Thank you for that - must have been something odd going on - power doesn't go out a lot, was just noticed on some sites during the bad weather of Jan last year

Rikkitic

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#3158107 10-Nov-2023 17:33

Rodders1nz:

Have got one, can confirm works as advertised and would recommend.

I am another Constant Vigil fan. Inexpensive, works well, great company to deal with. It powered my phone when I still needed that and it now provides backup power to my router.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

geekIT

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#3158353 11-Nov-2023 16:02

I may have been misunderstood. All I was saying is that the Phillipina Spark rep who told me that the copper line would cost extra, was the first time anyone had mentioned this to me. In part, I was just seeking confirmation that this is indeed the case.

Re power outages, we get around 2 - 3 a year. This is not a BFD - we have cell phones in case of emergency - but if the copper line had not cost extra, why wouldn't we go for it, even if copper will be scrapped eventually? Anyway, no BFD.

UPS for the ONT? Not necessary. I already have several for my computers but it's not worth buying another for the occasional loss of the fibre signal.

However, I'm still confused about whether our existing phone number will be retained after fibre takes over. Some of you say yes, it will - others say no.

Is there someone authoritative out there who can give me the skinny on this?

Another question for someone who actually knows the answer: How is the switching done from copper to fibre? Is it done manually in a phone cabinet or in an exchange building? Or does someone at a desk in the Philipines just click a webpage link? And it that's the case, can it happen 24\7 or just during NZ working hours?

'Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.' Voltaire

'A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.' Edward Abbey

Quic Broadband

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SomeoneSomewhere

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#3158360 11-Nov-2023 16:39

UPS for the ONT? Not necessary. I already have several for my computers but it's not worth buying another for the occasional loss of the fibre signal.

However, I'm still confused about whether our existing phone number will be retained after fibre takes over. Some of you say yes, it will - others say no.

Is there someone authoritative out there who can give me the skinny on this?

It sounds like you don't have fibre installed yet, so I would arrange for the ONT to be installed near one of the existing UPSs if practical. They only draw a couple of watts. Then you don't even need to buy any UPS.

I cannot see any posts that suggest you cannot port the number.

You can absolutely have the number moved from the landline to the fibre VoIP. You will need to explicitly request it - it probably won't happen automatically. There are occasional hiccups with this because it does rely on a human to fill out all the right forms but it is generally flawless.

Another question for someone who actually knows the answer: How is the switching done from copper to fibre? Is it done manually in a phone cabinet or in an exchange building? Or does someone at a desk in the Philipines just click a webpage link? And it that's the case, can it happen 24\7 or just during NZ working hours?

I assume you're talking specifically about the landline number. It's a software change done by Spark that tells the provides to send the number 05 555 1234 to a different location instead of the physical exchange, then I assume disabling the port on the physical exchange. It usually goes through a few hours after the actual connection I think.

So the new phone will start working, for outbound calls only. Then the inbound calls will move from the old line to the new line, and the old line will stop working. Same process as porting a mobile number.

The TCF says about 10k landlines are moved per month, although this is referring to between providers, not e.g. Spark copper to Spark fibre.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#3158363 11-Nov-2023 16:53

As a side note, you are in no way obligated to remain with Spark (unless you are in e.g. a 12-month contract with them).

You can move to a different provider and they can still offer you fibre and a phone-over-fibre, keeping your existing number.

Many of the smaller providers are known for having better service.

geekIT

2420 posts

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#3158370 11-Nov-2023 17:07

SomeoneSomewhere: Thanks for the tips. The reason we plan to stay with Spark is to retain several widely disseminated "@xtra" email addresses. I'd happily switch ISPs if it wasn't for that. However, I haven't given Spark the go ahead yet.

Re the fibre line itself, it's already in place. The ONT is powered up and shows three green lights at top left.

'Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.' Voltaire

'A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.' Edward Abbey

Jase2985

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#3158373 11-Nov-2023 17:22

geekIT:

SomeoneSomewhere: Thanks for the tips. The reason we plan to stay with Spark is to retain several widely disseminated "@xtra" email addresses. I'd happily switch ISPs if it wasn't for that. However, I haven't given Spark the go ahead yet.

Re the fibre line itself, it's already in place. The ONT is powered up and shows three green lights at top left.

you can pay about $6 a month to keep them and ditch eveything else spark

nztim

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#3158382 11-Nov-2023 18:38

SomeoneSomewhere:

The TCF says about 10k landlines are moved per month, although this is referring to between providers, not e.g. Spark copper to Spark fibre.

I may be wrong, but I think that figure includes Spark NEAX to Spark VOIP stack porting as I believe all the carriers need to update their route tables to advise that number has been migrated to VOIP

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#3158416 11-Nov-2023 21:07

nztim:

SomeoneSomewhere:

The TCF says about 10k landlines are moved per month, although this is referring to between providers, not e.g. Spark copper to Spark fibre.

I may be wrong, but I think that figure includes Spark NEAX to Spark VOIP stack porting as I believe all the carriers need to update their route tables to advise that number has been migrated to VOIP

Could be right.

Interestingly, they have a graph showing that a very constant and surprisingly high ~82% of active landlines are not with their original provider. Perhaps this shows the move from Spark NEAX to Spark VoIP?

FIFO

30 posts

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#3159465 14-Nov-2023 13:40

Wheelbarrow01:

snnet:

Just a general question about UPS/backup for ONTs - I've had a few customers who have a UPS but the other end doesn't seem to in the event of a widespread power outage - this is from when the power outage starts. Is this normal? Or should it be expected that the network end have some backup supply as well, at least for a few hours? Areas are Northpower and Chorus

UFB fibre is run on GPON - gigabyte passive optical network. The passive means that the network in the street does not need power. As long as the exchange building has power, then the network will continue to run. All exchanges have back up power with redundancy in place so there's no technical explanation for what you are reporting.

The only explanation I can think of is where there is a fibre cable cut in tandem with a power outage - but the driver of no service in that scenario is the cable cut, not the power being out (if an ONT/router UPS exists).

Non-technical explanation - theft of backup batteries out of exchange buildings, mobile towers and other locations. A big problem for the general industry in Northland.

nztim

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#3159507 14-Nov-2023 16:39

FIFO:

Non-technical explanation - theft of backup batteries out of exchange buildings, mobile towers and other locations. A big problem for the general industry in Northland.

I remember Jason Paris from Vodafone going on social media saying "Don't be a dick, you are putting people's lives at risk" in response to people stealing batteries & generators from exchanges/towers during the Hawkes Bay floods.

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

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