Mobile number portability

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Mobile number portability

wonderstuff

110 posts

Master Geek

#15943 17-Sep-2007 16:13

Does anyone have a good understanding of how mobile number portability works in the NZ sense? ie: If I have a Telecom mobile number and get this number ported to Vodafone, how do phones/networks that try to reach my number get routed to Vodafone? Is there some kind of routing table on a Telecom server somewhere?

Who owns a mobile number? Does the end user own it? or is it more seen as a lease?
Even when the current network is different to the original host, does the original host still own it? Can the original host ever ask for "fees" to pay for number routing?

How much does it "cost" a network to forward a ported number to another network?

Yes - I realise that these are quite detailled questions that may not have easy answers, but I thought I would give it a shot nonetheless :-)

Mike

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#86914 17-Sep-2007 19:03

I think there is a standardised platform which directs numbers to the correct operator based on the data assigned to it.

Who owns a mobile number? Does the end user own it? or is it more seen as a lease?
Even when the current network is different to the original host, does the original host still own it? Can the original host ever ask for "fees" to pay for number routing? The mobile number belongs to the issuer. of it's disconnected after being ported to Vodafone, only Telecom can re-establish it as a new Connection.

How much does it "cost" a network to forward a ported number to another network? Sorry, Don't know for sure! I beleive it's free of charge once setup asides the one-off "churn" fee.

tonyhughes

Hawkes Bay
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#86928 17-Sep-2007 21:37

Everything I say in this post is pure speculation on my part. Before anyone jumps on me, I would just like to say that I am probably wrong.

wonderstuff: Does anyone have a good understanding of how mobile number portability works in the NZ sense?

I doubt that very much.

ie: If I have a Telecom mobile number and get this number ported to Vodafone, how do phones/networks that try to reach my number get routed to Vodafone? Is there some kind of routing table on a Telecom server somewhere?

Not sure, I think one of the telcos probably host a system paid for by everyone who uses it, and maintained as a seperate neutral entity.

Who owns a mobile number? Does the end user own it? or is it more seen as a lease?

I am not sure that you can 'own' a number, but I am pretty sure in NZ that the entity named on the account has the right to use the number under reasonable circumstances, as long as they are paying the bills to the telco that provides service on the number. If you dont pay your bill, you could get disconnected, and your number given to someone else - therefore I dont beleive you 'own' your number.

Even when the current network is different to the original host, does the original host still own it?

Shouldnt think so - once its gone its gone. The original host doesnt track where it is now - only where it went then.

Can the original host ever ask for "fees" to pay for number routing?

I am sure there is no scope to ask a customer for fees for porting (but of course if you have contract disconnection penalties, they would still apply).

How much does it "cost" a network to forward a ported number to another network?

Id say once the number is ported, it is simply routed at zero cost, as part of the whole porting strategy/agreements.

Yes - I realise that these are quite detailled questions that may not have easy answers, but I thought I would give it a shot nonetheless :-)

Worth a crack Nigel......

........... Nigel??

nzbnw

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Spark NZ

#86934 17-Sep-2007 21:46

tonyhughes:
Shouldnt think so - once its gone its gone. The original host doesnt track where it is now - only where it went then.

(Not jumping here!)

Yes and no really. First of all, if the foreign number is disconnected, then the foreign carrier only has a set time period to reconnect it, before it is placed in a recycling pool, where no carrier (i.e. Telecom or Vodafone) can connect it. Then after the expiry of that period of time it is returned back to carrier of origin to be reallocated to a new customer.

nzbnw

wonderstuff

110 posts

Master Geek

#87084 18-Sep-2007 19:46

Thanks for your responses. It looks like it is all a bit of black art.

For those that are interested, I discovered that numbers are issued and managed by a central authority (?) called the NAD - Number Administration Deed. There is also a lot of information on the Commerce Commission site regarding the terms (a document called Decision 554) and implementation of the number portability scheme.

I have yet to read them, but I am sure they will provide a few answers and many more questions!

GrumpyDwarf

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#87310 20-Sep-2007 08:37

In simple terms, there is a switch that has in effect been paid for by all the t/coms companies and administered by the TCF. This switch is called IPMS, have a look at http://www.tcf.org.nz/content/26d0a04d-68a3-4cbd-bafb-ebee1d688992.html . Each t/com has a HOC or code assigned against it. There are no transaction costs per say but the cost of administering the service is diveded amongst t/coms companies, check the following link http://www.comcom.govt.nz/IndustryRegulation/Telecommunications/NumberPortablility/numberportabilitycostallocationapplicat.aspx

wonderstuff

110 posts

Master Geek

#87529 21-Sep-2007 12:27

Thanks Grumpy, I appreciate the reply.   You seem suitably knowledgable so I will put a few more questions back to you:

1.   So does that mean if I were on the Telecom 027 network and initiated a call an 021xxxxxx number would the Telecom network always look up the IPMS to determine if the number was on the 027 or 021 networks?   I would presume so, that way avoiding interconnection charges if the number had been ported to 027. (Subsequent to that call, I would imagine that the Telecom network would then cache the ported number for a period of time avoinding further lookups)
2.    Is the IPMS "just" a database on the internet somewhere? or is it on some other private network? I would imagine that there are some additional latency issues by requiring an additional database lookup.
3.    Are you aware of any legislations or regulations about who "owns" a number once it is ported? Clearly the NAD "own" the number, but the network that has been originally allocated the number range from NAD would strike me as having more rights than the one which the number is ported to.
3a.  Where am I going with this thought?   Is the network that is issued the number by NAD able to charge a subscription fee for the number even if it is ported to another network. ie: some sort of overhead fee - a bit like domain names?

Just some food for thought....

GrumpyDwarf

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#87540 21-Sep-2007 13:12

Hi

(1) IPMS is in simple terms a route table, any number in NZ (local and mobile) now called checks to see who the owner is, each number has a Telco HOC against it, eg 1 for TCNZ, 2 for Vodafone, 3 for TCL. (not actually the numbers used) this then directs the call to the approiate Telco. Interconnect charging only happens if it goes from one telco to the other. If it orginates in TCNZ, hits the IPMS switch and destinates in TCNZ then there is no interconnect charge. It is my understanding that noccaching takes place at the telco, since IPMS is a live database.

(2) No, physical database, I think it was designed and implemented by IBM, each telco has links into it. No latency issue from IPMS exist, that I am aware of.

(3) Number ownership is now rather vague, with LMNP it actually states that the 'customer' owns it but if relinquished then it goes back to the original owner. IE, if you had a 09 309 1234 but were billed by TCL then it would go back to TCNZ or if you had a 021 123 4567 billed with TCNZ it would go back to Voda.

(3a) The cost of running IPMS is shared by all members of the group, I think it is apportioned base on usage so they in the long run pay on ports in and out (testing my memory here)

General comment on NAD, this was signed in May 2000, I believe that a lot of ownership content in the NAD have been supeseded by provisions in LMNP.

Hope that helps

Tradepub

Free professional, reference and technical white papers (affiliate link).

wonderstuff

110 posts

Master Geek

#87594 21-Sep-2007 21:10

> IPMS is in simple terms a route table, any number in NZ (local and mobile) now called checks to see who the owner is, each number has a Telco HOC against it, eg 1 for TCNZ, 2 for Vodafone, 3 for TCL. (not actually the numbers used) this then directs the call to the approiate Telco.

Thanks for the good information - obviously you are in the Telco game.

So does this mean that every telephone number is in the IPMS, or just the ones that have been ported?

>If it orginates in TCNZ, hits the IPMS switch and destinates in TCNZ then there is no interconnect charge.

This suggests that a telco does not necessarily have knowledge about whether one of its own numbers has been ported?

paradoxsm

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#87617 21-Sep-2007 22:22

Thanks GrumpyDwarf! Superb info, I was majorly in the dark about it.

Fraktul

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#87628 22-Sep-2007 01:56

IPMS is not a switch - it is a platform and associated back end systems to manage porting requests between providers and provide feeds for those with their own switches to obtain updated routing information. IPMS does not route calls itself, call routing information is likewise not queried from IPMS during the call switching process.

GrumpyDwarf

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#87643 22-Sep-2007 10:04

Hi, only ported numbers are in IPMS, each Telco holds a copy of ported in or out numbers, for instance Vodafone has a system called VIPMS. This holds information customers that have ported in and out of Voda. Sequence of events goes like this.
(1) 027 customer wishes to port to voda (2) customer signs forms etc (3) port request logged with IPMS (4) IPMS notifies gain and losing service provider and they update their route tables. So yes telcos do know that a port out of their network has happened
FRAKFUL is technically correct IPMS is a database not a switch, sorry I was trying to make it easy to understand.

GrumpyDwarf

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#87644 22-Sep-2007 10:05

Hi
FRAKFUL yes you are correct IPMS is a database not a switch, sorry I was trying to make it easy to understand.

wonderstuff

110 posts

Master Geek

#87738 23-Sep-2007 11:10

Again some excellent answers.

Questions for Geekzone:

1. Can local numbers be ported to mobile numbers and vice versa?
2. How do networks work out the costs associated for callers to ported numbers?    Eg: if a user has changed from 021 to 027.   If another user with an 021 number calls the original users 021 number, I take it they will be charged for calling the 027 network?    So does this mean that the onus is on the caller to know which network the number is on?
3. Ditto if you can port local numbers to mobiles?   Does this also depend upon callers to know which network the number is on?
4. If a new entrant telco came into NZ, eg: 022.   Then one of there numbers was ported to the 021 network.   Then for users to receive calls and SMSs would this depend upon the new entrant having international agreements with operators to receive calls internationally? I assume the onus would then be on the new entrant to route calls and SMSs to 021.

bjhoogs

183 posts

Master Geek

#87782 23-Sep-2007 19:00

It is up to the caller, txter to find out which network they are calling, txting

"To allow you to check whether or not a number is currently operating on the Telecom network we are providing a FREE short code text service.

To use the FREE short code service all you need to do is text the mobile number you want to check (no spaces) to 300 and you will receive text notification as to whether the number is active on the Telecom network."

http://www.telecom.co.nz/content/0,8748,205250-200447,00.html?text=mhp

I don't think it is possible to port from a mobile to landline and vice versa, however voip is already blurring the lines between a "fixed line" and mobile phone. A mobile number can de diverted to a land line (at the person diverting the call's cost)

tama

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

#88444 28-Sep-2007 05:36

I agree about mobile numbers cannot be ported to landline numbers, I would suspect that this will be caused by the exchange limitations to support mobile number prefixes (it just don't really).

As for the initial question, yes IPMS is a live database and each ISP will be running a daily check (should be more than once a day, but it depends on each ISP preferences really) to make sure their copy of the IPMS database is up to date. Thus it will make sure that each ISP knows where to route a call to.

I do have a question myself though. Does anyone have an idea if a landline number can still be ported if it change location?
Example case: someone is moving from auckland to wellington. Obviusly the area code will change, but should they be able to keep their 7 digit number? What confuses me is the "different exchange - different number" rule with Telecom, and I'm curious to see if anyone might know more about this.

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