Phone wiring

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Altair

6 posts

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#16175 27-Sep-2007 16:29

Hello
I've extended my phone line out to my shed which had a seperate phone line to it. I just cut and joined into the existing line which ran past my window. This was easier than running an extender cable as it has to go underground for a few metres. Probably not allowed but not hurting anyone. It worked (in the shed) for my broadband but strangely not for the phone. I've tried all combinations of joining the different wires and the microfilter in different places. Does anyone know why the broadband would work but not the phone?

Altair

Laz

33 posts

Geek

#88363 27-Sep-2007 18:17

couple of quick questions...

Have you tried the phone only without the filter. is there a dial tone or is it totally dead

Also you said you cut into the originally line. does the original jackpoint still work with the phone?

tonyhughes

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#88374 27-Sep-2007 19:19

Altair: Hello
I've extended my phone line out to my shed which had a seperate phone line to it. I just cut and joined into the existing line which ran past my window. This was easier than running an extender cable as it has to go underground for a few metres. Probably not allowed but not hurting anyone. It worked (in the shed) for my broadband but strangely not for the phone. I've tried all combinations of joining the different wires and the microfilter in different places. Does anyone know why the broadband would work but not the phone?

Altair

If you dont know what you are doing, and keep trying combinations of joining different wires, you are increasing the likelihood of damaging network or your own equipment!

Altair

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#88616 29-Sep-2007 10:34

Laz
New Zealand

Yes I've tried the phone only without the filter. It is completely dead either way. And I've tried different phones. Yes the original jackpoint still runs with the phone, I have my house phone running off it. I have a splitter off the original jack with one going to house phone the other to out the window where I connected it into the shed line which was previously a seperate account. Broadband workes fine but not phone. Could it be that the extra resistance of the line and connections stop the phone working but not the broadband? The broadband speed is fine though.

Altair.

cyril7

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#88617 29-Sep-2007 10:43

Altair

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#88619 29-Sep-2007 10:54

You havent managed to wire it via a ringing capacitor have you, this would probably still allow the DSL through but you would never be able to loop the line.

My advice, dont muck with things you dont understand.

Cyril

Thanks for reply Cyril. Its possible I have wired it via a ringing capacitor. There is a thing (for want of a better description) between the join and the shed (black, cylindrical). Do you think if I wired it in downstream of said thing it might make a difference?
Mucking with things I don't understand is how I learn and how I get things done that I otherwise wouldn't get done. In fact its how science and human knowledge progresses.

Altair

scottjpalmer

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#88620 29-Sep-2007 11:33

Had a Downer tech here AGAIN this morning . . . . he informed me that ADSL only requires one "leg" to be connected not the 2 that the phone does.

cyril7

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#88621 29-Sep-2007 11:44

Your man from Downers should be sacked, you require a balanced pair (2wires) for both the pots(phone) and the adsl. Maybe his comments refered to older three wire systems and you misunderstood him. But hey Im only a old broadcast/telecomunications engineer what would I know .....all this new fangled stuff.

Altair, I did not mean to appear abrupt in my previous comment, on rereading it, it did appear so. But it is a commercial connection, there are safety issues to be concidered, I mean policemen arent paid enough to go home in a box, neither are telecom techs, remember your phone line is connected to a complex piece of kit at the other end, dont damage it or the folk that service it.

Cyril

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scottjpalmer

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#88622 29-Sep-2007 11:48

Yeah thats probably more the case Cyril, the me misunderstanding bit :-) It was in relation to the 3 wire system here and the fact that one jackpoint gave me ADSL but not a dial tone.

Altair

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#88623 29-Sep-2007 12:06

Cyril

OK I'll take your advice. I didn't realise that cutting into low voltage wires could cause any danger. What would you recommend I do? Leave as is and put up with no phone in shed or reconnect it to how it was?

Altair

cyril7

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#88626 29-Sep-2007 12:20

My safety concerns were in relation to letting ELV wiring (telecom cabling) coming into contact with LV(230V), this happens more often that you may think and normally after home owners have done their own wiring.

With out more detailed description on what you have done I cannot help more, but its not rocket science.

Cyril

Altair

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#88629 29-Sep-2007 12:40

I'm trained in medium voltage electrical (230volts) so you can rest assured I'd never let a thin phone wire come anywhere near a live socket. But I believe you that it does happen.
However I know almost nothing about phone systems so its a cowboy DIY job.

cyril7

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#88632 29-Sep-2007 13:08

Give more detail on exactly what components you have wired and how and I may be able to help. The detail todate is not enough.

Cyril

Altair

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#88633 29-Sep-2007 13:34

OK there is a shed out the back of my place that used to be a business and has its own phone line. The tenant left and I took over. I wanted to run a phone extension out to it but would have been big hassle because it would have had to go underground to get by car area. So I traced the existing phone line and found that it went right passed my window on its way to the street box or wherever it comes from. So I bought some connectors, cut into this live and patched in the 2 wires from an extender chord run from my home phone plug out the window. There were 4 wires in the black existing line to shed. I looked in the box in the shed and noted the colours of the ones that then linked to the 2 phone sockets in the shed. So I connected these 2 to my extender cable out the window, taking a guess as to which way round (I'm not sure if it even matters). So the existing line is functioning simply as an extender from my house. Then I plugged in my computer in the shed and the broadband connected no problem. But the phone won't work. I can always go inside to make calls (phone plugged into original socket that I also took extender cable to shed off) but its a hassel as I work in the shed. I've tried different phones and every combination of filter/modem/phone possible.
Between the place I patched into the existing line (outside my house window) and the shed the line goes through a black cylinder thing which is cable tied to the roof overhang. Could this be the capacitor you were talking about and if so would patching my extender cable from the house into this help?

Appreciate your help

cyril7

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#88635 29-Sep-2007 13:44

Nothing sounds out of place other than establishing if your house wiring or the sheds has 3wire sockets on place, and if so have you wired to the bell wire. If the BT phone sockets have a 2 on the face then you just need to wire a pair to one leg and the other. The IDC terminations in 2wire sockets are individual, normally they have 3 positions each but each individual assembly is one wire or the other, which way around you put the wire does not exactly matter.

If you have older Master/Slave BT sockets then ensure you connect pins 2 and 5 as the pair. Pin 3 is the bell wire and while technically you should wire this through I would not bother at this point, it wont stop you making a call (unless you accidently wire through it) but some older phones wont ring if there is no pin 3 connection. As I said just ensure that you have a pair connecting pins 2&5 to any older Master/Slave 3wire sockets and wire that pair to any newer 2wire sockets as they should be. Outside of this there is no reason why you cannot loop the line.

I am also assuming here that not only can you not make a call but you cannot pick one up either, ie there is no DC path to the shed.

Technically there is no reason why you cannot mix 2 and 3 wire sockets in a installation, as long as you wire them correctly and accept that slave sockets may not provide ringing to some older phones. Ideally you should upgrade your whole installation to 2wire, telecom will no longer support 3wire systems and will normally charge you to upgrade your entire installation to 2wire if they are called into fix a fault.

The black thing you mention is more likely a damarc point or join, bell capacitors would never be placed in such a position.

Cyril