Moving from Spark to another ISP, Spark won't take cancellation notice from me.

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Moving from Spark to another ISP, Spark won't take cancellation notice from me.

quebec

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#172112 12-May-2015 09:55

So I have been trying to move form Spark to BigPipe. Spoke to Spark number of times as I believe I need to give them 30 days notice. They keep telling me that I can't give the notice, it has to be done by other ISP on the order or something that they will take over the services after 30 days of informing to Spark. Now, BigPipe say something else, "When it comes to 30 days notice, this is about the billing arrangements between you and Spark. You'll need to let them know what date you would like to cancel and then we can submit the transaction for a few days before so that there is no down time." Now I have spoken to different people and departments in Spark and they all seem to say the same thing that I can't give notice myself.
this is becoming quite frustrating. Can someone from Spark please advise?

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Geek @ Coastguard NZ
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#1302594 12-May-2015 10:40

Its your account, you should be able to cancel it regardless of there being another ISP or not.

Each time I've moved ISP, the new one has informed the old ISP theyre taking over, and I've called 28 days out as well just to confirm the order has been seen. Never had an issue.

Gavin / xpd / FastRaccoon / Geek of Coastguard New Zealand

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Behodar

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#1302603 12-May-2015 10:52

Cancellation orders take priority so if you cancel with Spark then Bigpipe won't be able to connect you until your line is cancelled - this means that there will be downtime. Bigpipe needs to submit a "churn" order, but I'm not sure how it all works when the losing ISP wants a notice period.

Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#1302631 12-May-2015 11:21

Just ask Bigpipe to go ahead and arrange the transfer. Chorus will then issue the orders to do the transfer and will send the LSP notification to Spark.

While technically your agreement with Spark does require you to give 30 day's notice, in reality there is no way to ensure this happens in this particular disconnection scenario. What will most likely happen is that your billing with Spark will cease on the date Chorus transfer the services to Bigpipe.

I used to process all the LSP notifications for Spark ADSL/VDSL customers. Even after we introduced the 30 day notice rule, it was not technically possible for Spark to enforce the notice period in a change provider scenario, and the billing was stopped as soon as the services churned away. I have been out of the residential space for a few months now so it is possible that process has been fixed.

The OP is welcome to PM me with the details as follows, after asking Bigpipe to proceed:
Spark account number
Date he originally contacted Spark to give notice
The services being transferred

I will then ensure that the correct notice period is observed from the correct date.

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

CutCutCut

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#1302654 12-May-2015 11:38

The ISPs don't seem to make this particularly easy do they. When I left Orcon to shift to Spark (Telecom at the time) I emailed Orcon telling them that I would be shifitng to another ISP within 30 days and to await instructions from my new ISP. I made sure that the end of that 30 days was also at the end of my billing period with Orcon. They send a (probably automatic) reply that they had received my email. Then I booked the day with Spark about 4 days before the end of that 30 day period. All went smoothly until Orcon tried to bill me for another full month because of their 30 day policy. I had to waste time talking to various people and sending them the proof of the email I had sent and their reply that it had een received, but they did eventually back down and cancel the invoice.

NonprayingMantis

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#1302658 12-May-2015 11:47

There is no real reason to require 30 days notice. Chorus don't require it for the wholesale product, so the ISP is just using it as an excuse to:

a) get more money out of you by extending your life as a customer
b) make it more of a hassle to leave (reducing their churn)
c) give them an opportunity to force you to talk to a retention team who will try and 'save' you by offering you stuff.

to Spakr's credit, they were one of the last ISPs to implement it. Slingshot, Orcon etc have had it for years.

The correct way to move ISPs to avoid extra charges is like this:

Sign up with new ISP. Request a connection date 30+ days in the future
Once new ISP has confirmed your connection date is booked with Chorus, then (and ONLY then) contact your current ISP.*
Ideally do this via email (so there is proof of contact) and tell them the following:

I am writing to let you know I will be moving my services to a different ISP on xx/xx/xx.
Please take this as my 30 days notice period as required by your terms.

*the reason for waiting is that Chorus have a process whereby if there is a disconnnection order on the line, a new ISP cannot place a connection order until that disconnection is fully complete - meaning a downtime of 3-5 days most likely between ISPs.
Totally dumb I know, but that's just the way it is.

But once the new ISP has placed the transition order, the existing ISP cannot then place a disconnection order to block it. (so that's why you wait until your new ISP confirms the date with Chorus)

BigPipeNZ

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BigPipe

#1302672 12-May-2015 12:23

quebec: So I have been trying to move form Spark to BigPipe. Spoke to Spark number of times as I believe I need to give them 30 days notice. They keep telling me that I can't give the notice, it has to be done by other ISP on the order or something that they will take over the services after 30 days of informing to Spark. Now, BigPipe say something else, "When it comes to 30 days notice, this is about the billing arrangements between you and Spark. You'll need to let them know what date you would like to cancel and then we can submit the transaction for a few days before so that there is no down time." Now I have spoken to different people and departments in Spark and they all seem to say the same thing that I can't give notice myself.
this is becoming quite frustrating. Can someone from Spark please advise?

you can most definitely give them notice.

what you don't want them to do is place a disconnection order. that should come via Chorus (but sometimes even that doesn't happen properly - another good reason to give them notice even if they didn't require it)

giving notice is not the same as placing an order to disconnect.

Sounds like the Spark rep didn't quite understand what you wanted to do.

Wheelbarrow01 is onto it already, (Cheers!) but just to be sure I'd email Spark to confirm you are giving them notice that you are switching ISPs

Have you already signed up and requested a connection date with us, and have we confirmed it yet?

bigpipe.co.nz
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quebec

852 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1302674 12-May-2015 12:26

BigPipeNZ:
quebec: So I have been trying to move form Spark to BigPipe. Spoke to Spark number of times as I believe I need to give them 30 days notice. They keep telling me that I can't give the notice, it has to be done by other ISP on the order or something that they will take over the services after 30 days of informing to Spark. Now, BigPipe say something else, "When it comes to 30 days notice, this is about the billing arrangements between you and Spark. You'll need to let them know what date you would like to cancel and then we can submit the transaction for a few days before so that there is no down time." Now I have spoken to different people and departments in Spark and they all seem to say the same thing that I can't give notice myself.
this is becoming quite frustrating. Can someone from Spark please advise?

you can most definitely give them notice.

what you don't want them to do is place a disconnection order. that should come via Chorus (but sometimes even that doesn't happen properly - another good reason to give them notice even if they didn't require it)

giving notice is not the same as placing an order to disconnect.

Sounds like the Spark rep didn't quite understand what you wanted to do.

Wheelbarrow01 is onto it already, (Cheers!) but just to be sure I'd email Spark to confirm you are giving them notice that you are switching ISPs

Have you already signed up and requested a connection date with us, and have we confirmed it yet?

I have signed up but BigPipe has asked me for a date which I have asked Wheelbarrow01 to provide as I have given notice few times already.

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BigPipeNZ

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#1302677 12-May-2015 12:31

quebec:
BigPipeNZ:
quebec: So I have been trying to move form Spark to BigPipe. Spoke to Spark number of times as I believe I need to give them 30 days notice. They keep telling me that I can't give the notice, it has to be done by other ISP on the order or something that they will take over the services after 30 days of informing to Spark. Now, BigPipe say something else, "When it comes to 30 days notice, this is about the billing arrangements between you and Spark. You'll need to let them know what date you would like to cancel and then we can submit the transaction for a few days before so that there is no down time." Now I have spoken to different people and departments in Spark and they all seem to say the same thing that I can't give notice myself.
this is becoming quite frustrating. Can someone from Spark please advise?

you can most definitely give them notice.

what you don't want them to do is place a disconnection order. that should come via Chorus (but sometimes even that doesn't happen properly - another good reason to give them notice even if they didn't require it)

giving notice is not the same as placing an order to disconnect.

Sounds like the Spark rep didn't quite understand what you wanted to do.

Wheelbarrow01 is onto it already, (Cheers!) but just to be sure I'd email Spark to confirm you are giving them notice that you are switching ISPs

Have you already signed up and requested a connection date with us, and have we confirmed it yet?

I have signed up but BigPipe has asked me for a date which I have asked Wheelbarrow01 to provide as I have given notice few times already.

sorry, I don't quite follow. What date did you put into the sign-up form? You can't be signed up without requesting a connection date.

Once you tell us what date you want, we then place the order with Chorus. They confirm it (usually within a day). Then at that point you can go to your current ISP to give them notice.

As has been said above if you give notice to Spark before getting the order confirmed with us, they might place a disconnection order onto your line which will actually block us placing the order at all.

bigpipe.co.nz
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SirHumphreyAppleby

2844 posts

Uber Geek

#1302678 12-May-2015 12:31

If you're on fibre (or can switch to it), do a new install and cancel your current connection later.

I had issues with cancelling my HD service as they also have a 30 day notice period. Their T&C state HD is entitled to payment for the balance of the month when short notice is given of cancellation, so I instructed HD as soon as practicable (but within 30 days) to cancel service at the end of the month. They proceeded to charge another full month of service, not the balance of the month, which due to ambiguity, was either zero days, or 30 days minus the number of days notice prior to the actual cancellation date. Because they did not address my concerns and closed the support ticket, I did a charge back instead, as the payment exceeded what they were authorised to take irrespective of interpretation.

It's a pity really, despite their questionable reputation on these forums, they were actually a very good ISP and provided excellent service, but after that, I don't see myself ever going back.

Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#1302708 12-May-2015 12:55

The OP gave Spark notice back at the end of January and this is noted in this account memo. I have just advised him he is free to leave Spark asap and I will ensure the Spark billing ceases on the date the services are transferred away.

I agree the process is cumbersome but NonprayingMantis' suggestion is the best option if you are not in a hurry:

Sign up with new ISP. Request a connection date 30+ days in the future
Once new ISP has confirmed your connection date is booked with Chorus, then (and ONLY then) contact your current ISP.*
Ideally do this via email (so there is proof of contact) and tell them the following:

I am writing to let you know I will be moving my services to a different ISP on xx/xx/xx.
Please take this as my 30 days notice period as required by your terms.

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

quebec

852 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1303438 13-May-2015 11:17

BigPipeNZ:
quebec:
BigPipeNZ:
quebec: So I have been trying to move form Spark to BigPipe. Spoke to Spark number of times as I believe I need to give them 30 days notice. They keep telling me that I can't give the notice, it has to be done by other ISP on the order or something that they will take over the services after 30 days of informing to Spark. Now, BigPipe say something else, "When it comes to 30 days notice, this is about the billing arrangements between you and Spark. You'll need to let them know what date you would like to cancel and then we can submit the transaction for a few days before so that there is no down time." Now I have spoken to different people and departments in Spark and they all seem to say the same thing that I can't give notice myself.
this is becoming quite frustrating. Can someone from Spark please advise?

you can most definitely give them notice.

what you don't want them to do is place a disconnection order. that should come via Chorus (but sometimes even that doesn't happen properly - another good reason to give them notice even if they didn't require it)

giving notice is not the same as placing an order to disconnect.

Sounds like the Spark rep didn't quite understand what you wanted to do.

Wheelbarrow01 is onto it already, (Cheers!) but just to be sure I'd email Spark to confirm you are giving them notice that you are switching ISPs

Have you already signed up and requested a connection date with us, and have we confirmed it yet?

I have signed up but BigPipe has asked me for a date which I have asked Wheelbarrow01 to provide as I have given notice few times already.

sorry, I don't quite follow. What date did you put into the sign-up form? You can't be signed up without requesting a connection date.

Once you tell us what date you want, we then place the order with Chorus. They confirm it (usually within a day). Then at that point you can go to your current ISP to give them notice.

As has been said above if you give notice to Spark before getting the order confirmed with us, they might place a disconnection order onto your line which will actually block us placing the order at all.

Date has been set for 15.05.15, sorry it's a bit confusing by signing I meant on the website. Anyways looks like it has been sorted now thanks to Wheelbarrow01. Only problem is that my billing date with Spark is today and they will be generating a bill tonight and I move on 15th so hopefully Spark can re issue a bill for 2-3 days or something. Have PMd Wheelbarrow01 about this.

Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#1303446 13-May-2015 11:29

Date has been set for 15.05.15, sorry it's a bit confusing by signing I meant on the website. Anyways looks like it has been sorted now thanks to Wheelbarrow01. Only problem is that my billing date with Spark is today and they will be generating a bill tonight and I move on 15th so hopefully Spark can re issue a bill for 2-3 days or something. Have PMd Wheelbarrow01 about this.

Actually I have your next billing date recorded as 16/05, so you should not receive any further charges after 15/05.
Provided Chorus complete the transfer in full before the bill is generated sometime on 16/05, the only thing on your final bill will be outstanding charges for toll calls etc.

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

CcMaN

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#1304512 13-May-2015 13:53

Wheelbarrow01:
I used to process all the LSP notifications for Spark ADSL/VDSL customers. Even after we introduced the 30 day notice rule, it was not technically possible for Spark to enforce the notice period in a change provider scenario, and the billing was stopped as soon as the services churned away. I have been out of the residential space for a few months now so it is possible that process has been fixed.

Tell this to Snap, who still charged me for 30 days after my services with them stopped when I shifted my services to Spark. I didn't want any downtime so I didn't want my connection disconnected by Chorus in the move.

This process seriously needs to be fixed, ISP's are ripping off consumers by these 30 day notice periods when they know that you can't churn to another provider if a disconnection order has been put on the account.

quebec

852 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1306482 17-May-2015 09:11

Wheelbarrow01:

Date has been set for 15.05.15, sorry it's a bit confusing by signing I meant on the website. Anyways looks like it has been sorted now thanks to Wheelbarrow01. Only problem is that my billing date with Spark is today and they will be generating a bill tonight and I move on 15th so hopefully Spark can re issue a bill for 2-3 days or something. Have PMd Wheelbarrow01 about this.

Actually I have your next billing date recorded as 16/05, so you should not receive any further charges after 15/05.
Provided Chorus complete the transfer in full before the bill is generated sometime on 16/05, the only thing on your final bill will be outstanding charges for toll calls etc.

Move completed on 15.05.15, received a bill this morning with VDSL charges for another month.

sbiddle

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#1306507 17-May-2015 10:47

CcMaN:
This process seriously needs to be fixed, ISP's are ripping off consumers by these 30 day notice periods when they know that you can't churn to another provider if a disconnection order has been put on the account.

Why? Giving 30 days notice to your ISP is very different to giving 30 days notice and asking for a disconnection order to be lodged.

I wouldn't see why any ISP shouldn't accept 30 days notice on the condition rather than a service order for a disconnection being placed, that it will simply be a service order for a move.

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