Xtra ISP | smtp.xtra.co.nz and non-Xtra accounts

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mindplague

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

# 20821 7-Apr-2008 08:26

Hi everyone,

We configured up two new laptops for a new start-up client on Friday (and on our Telstra Cable) and all was well, mail.xyz.co.nz for POP and SMTP and all worked just fine and dandy.

Took the laptops onsite and the first thing they said was "we can't send any emails"

Nice one Xtra!

So I did some quick looking and do I REALLY have to get these non-technical people to go and get a Yahoo!Bugger account and then lodge an entry for their NON-Xtra email accounts?

Or is there a real-world work-around for this??

Thanks heaps,

Mindplague/Grant
Christchurch

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Nate wants an iphone
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# 121693 7-Apr-2008 08:32

Opt out of port 25 filtering.

xtra.co.nz/port25

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freitasm

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# 121707 7-Apr-2008 09:35

Xtra has been blocking port 25 outgoing access for a couple of years now for security reasons, and as cokemaster pointed out it's just a matter of following the instructions on that page.

mindplague: ... go and get a Yahoo!Bugger account

I see you are new here, but the rules are that in this forum we call all companies by their actual names.

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mindplague

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

# 121716 7-Apr-2008 10:11

Sorry, didn't realise sarcasm was no longer allowed... another win with the PC-front I guess...

freitasm

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# 121719 7-Apr-2008 10:13

You will find we are not very PC at all (just check our chat). However this is called "respect". If we expect those companies to keep reading the forums and acting on what we write here we have to give them what we expect from them.

These are the rules here and have always been.

By the way I've noticed you replied to complain about the rules, but didn't bother saying "thank you" for the help. R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

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mindplague

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

# 121792 7-Apr-2008 14:47

Let me know when you get your 8 hours of sleep and wake up smiling again (no offence, just seems I caught you at a bad moment)...

I was not intending to disrespect anyone, I was mearly making an attempt at sarcasm. As far as respect for Xtra goes, is there any left?

In all honestly, who in the world, even Nigeria for that matter would have respect for an ISP offering a $29.95 / 200Mb broadband plan?

I think as a veteran (16+ years) of the I.T. world it's time the industry started to make some much louder complaints regarding the state of affairs of our 'life-blood' (i.e. broadband) and the very very poor attempt that Xtra have done in providing it to date.

As for respect for posters, yes, thank you for the assistance, always much appreciated.

As for simply 'opting out' of Port25 blocking, it always amazes me if it's simply THAT EASY, then why even bother to do it at all...

The biggest issue I have (in this regards) is for the clients, they are not technical, they are not the sort of people that fluently switch ISP's SMTP info on the fly as required; you and I are, but we live and breath this stuff all day long - but what about the 99% of people that don't?

They go somewhere with their laptop and cannot send emails, they are either left frustrated or having to phone tech-support and being charged to fix the problem, a problem that should not exist from the get-go - a simple mail.XYZ.co.nz statement for SMTP should work regardless of your ISP or access point, shouldn't it?

So, as a body, when will WE the ICT community of New Zealand stand and make one very loud cry to Xtra and say "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" ??

You know, just curious...

Have a great day, I sure am!

freitasm

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# 121794 7-Apr-2008 14:56

mindplague: Let me know when you get your 8 hours of sleep and wake up smiling again (no offence, just seems I caught you at a bad moment)...

See that face in the avatar? That's me. I don't hide. And I am smiling.

mindplague: I was not intending to disrespect anyone, I was mearly making an attempt at sarcasm. As far as respect for Xtra goes, is there any left?

Yes. Believe it or not, Xtra is one of the few ISPs that say publicly "we screwed up". They did that with Go Large, they did that with the Yahoo! Bubble e-mail things.

mindplague: In all honestly, who in the world, even Nigeria for that matter would have respect for an ISP offering a $29.95 / 200Mb broadband plan?

Well, if you don't like it, don't use it. Some people don't need more - but this is really off topic.

mindplague: I think as a veteran (16+ years) of the I.T. world...

I've been doing this for more than 20 years.

mindplague: ... it's time the industry started to make some much louder complaints regarding the state of affairs of our 'life-blood' (i.e. broadband) and the very very poor attempt that Xtra have done in providing it to date

And the industry is complaining. People are listening. But calling names as you did does not help anything.

Xtra only? I hear complaints about almost all ISPs. Just check our Broadband forum, or the other specific forums.

mindplague: As for simply 'opting out' of Port25 blocking, it always amazes me if it's simply THAT EASY, then why even bother to do it at all...

Because they restrict the number of people they have to look at. By blocking port 25 they automatically cut the "oxygen supply" to all those bots used by spammers.

mindplague: The biggest issue I have (in this regards) is for the clients, they are not technical, they are not the sort of people that fluently switch ISP's SMTP info on the fly as required; you and I are, but we live and breath this stuff all day long - but what about the 99% of people that don't?

They go somewhere with their laptop and cannot send emails, they are either left frustrated or having to phone tech-support and being charged to fix the problem, a problem that should not exist from the get-go - a simple mail.XYZ.co.nz statement for SMTP should work regardless of your ISP or access point, shouldn't it?

Agreed.

mindplague: So, as a body, when will WE the ICT community of New Zealand stand and make one very loud cry to Xtra and say "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" ??

Other ISPs block port 25 also. Why single Xtra? It looks like you have a problem with Telecom only? If this is the case you can't represent the industry.

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PenultimateHop

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# 121823 7-Apr-2008 16:27

mindplague: As for simply 'opting out' of Port25 blocking, it always amazes me if it's simply THAT EASY, then why even bother to do it at all...

Because it was supposed to be simple to opt out of, for those that need it.

It's there as a simple and effective solution to drone PCs sending out spam (or viruses/worms).

Which would you prefer? ISPs acting responsibly to minimise the damage their subscribers inflict on the Internet, or the (possible) convenience of being able to use another SMTP server -- assuming, of course, that the alternate server will let you relay.

If option A... I don't want to hear any spam complaints!

cokemaster

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# 121845 7-Apr-2008 17:01

The funny thing was that if you even bothered to google 'xtra port 25 filter', 'xtra port 25 block', 'port 25 filter xtra' you would have been directed to either the page directly, or a page directing you to the page in question ON THE FIRST RESULT.

If you went to xtra.co.nz/help and typed in 'port 25 filter' or 'port 25', the FIRST RESULT points to the page to opt out from.

That doesn't excuse the contact centres or any information that you received, but comon, you claim to have been in the ICT industry for 20 years and you don't look at their website, don't bother doing searches. Surely a simple visit to the ISP website or even a search is not out of order.

In my opinion, given your latest posts, it sounds like you are more after a soapbox than a solution!

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mindplague

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

# 122048 8-Apr-2008 11:09

Gee thanks!

I was more 'asking' for the sake of "how do we help a non-technical client that can have Port 25 unblocked at the home and office, but what happens when they move their laptop around to another site and it all goes pear-shaped"

Yes, I did the searches and yes I found the ONE-off solution, but it didn't address my clients greater problem - as detailed above (and previously)...

Now do you see the reason for my post?

But sure, give me a soapbox and I'll give you a speech worthy of said soapbox!

Basically we have supplied a start-up (non technical) with two new laptops and all the power in the world do things 'mobile' - sadly this turned to lumpy custard the second they tried to do anything on Xtra.

YES I agree, top points to Xtra for stopping spam.

HOW do we (we as a global bunch of geeks and tech-people) workout a fool-proof solutions for the SMTP problem so many of our clients face on a daily basis.

Again, my post was to see if the GeekZone brains had some silver-bullet to fix such a thing, maybe the solution to all us Reseller's and geeks and tech-peoples daily headaches...

That was all, oops, seems my soapbox has grown again, sorry...

freitasm

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# 122049 8-Apr-2008 11:13

It's a situation where you can't do much - if you want to use an external provider (to be able to roam) while using a restrictive ISP then you have to ask for the "unblocking".

Alternatives are to switch ISP. But some ISPs do block port 25 access and don't even tell people and if you call their help desk to ask you will probably get a completely unrelated and wrong answer. Other require specific configurations (WorldxChange for example will only allow access to port 25 if you use a static IP address).

At least Xtra, with all the hate people nurture for them, makes it easier to opt-out.

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PenultimateHop

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# 122054 8-Apr-2008 11:21

mindplague:
HOW do we (we as a global bunch of geeks and tech-people) workout a fool-proof solutions for the SMTP problem so many of our clients face on a daily basis.

Find an ISP (or run your own corporate/business) relays with TLS, SMTP Authentication and use the SMTP submission port. As submission is on 587, it's very rarely blocked.

That's about the best solution, but it's not necessarily the most guaranteed to work given the random hotspots and networks around the places that block everything except 80 and 443.

The other best options would be to use a VPN back to where-ever your corporate mail server is; or configure Outlook to use OWA as the transport mechanism. The latter is pretty much guaranteed to work from anywhere you can use HTTPS.

richms

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# 122585 10-Apr-2008 16:37

Just be glad you can opt out, unlike another ISP that is very popular and otherwise customer focused.

Richard rich.ms

tr3v

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# 122805 11-Apr-2008 11:19

I too, have recently discovered that some of my outbound email has been going MIA. I am on an Xtra ADSL plan, static IP, with my own Exchange Server (uses DNS to resolve mail destinations - no relay) and a domain name hosted at freeparking. It has been that way for several years.

Recently, I became suspicious of some messages not being delivered as I was not getting a response. I then tested this further by specifically emailing the suspect address (which happened to be @xtra.co.nz). My server shows that it was sent, but it was never received, and no NDR.... then I found this thread which has explained a lot.

I opted out of port 25 filtering (but I must have already been out anyway given that I could send email), and contacted Xtra who noticed my PTR record was set to the xtra.adsl.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx address. They set my PTR record appropriately as this could have been a reason for messages being ditched.

But. I still have a problem sending to @xtra.co.nz - I can send to SOME xtra.co.nz addresses, but not others. Furthermore, any recipients that do not use xtra webmail have to go to their webmail and check their spam folder, and add me as 'safe sender' or enable spam forwarding.

Why was this not the default during the Yahoo/Xtra migration? I am sure there are a lot of Xtra users out there with legitimate emails stored in the web based spam folders. And why is my email being flagged as spam when I am on the same network?

It is not a good feeling not knowing if your email is going to be received or not. Hopefully you will receive this ;-)

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# 122808 11-Apr-2008 11:41

mindplague: I think as a veteran (16+ years) of the I.T. world it's time the industry started to make some much louder complaints regarding the state of affairs of our 'life-blood' (i.e. broadband) and the very very poor attempt that Xtra have done in providing it to date.

So, as a body, when will WE the ICT community of New Zealand stand and make one very loud cry to Xtra and say "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" ??

Leave Xtra?

richms

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# 122824 11-Apr-2008 12:46

tr3v:
I too, have recently discovered that some of my outbound email has been going MIA. I am on an Xtra ADSL plan, static IP, with my own Exchange Server (uses DNS to resolve mail destinations - no relay) and a domain name hosted at freeparking. It has been that way for several years.

Recently, I became suspicious of some messages not being delivered as I was not getting a response. I then tested this further by specifically emailing the suspect address (which happened to be @xtra.co.nz). My server shows that it was sent, but it was never received, and no NDR.... then I found this thread which has explained a lot.

I opted out of port 25 filtering (but I must have already been out anyway given that I could send email), and contacted Xtra who noticed my PTR record was set to the xtra.adsl.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx address. They set my PTR record appropriately as this could have been a reason for messages being ditched.

But. I still have a problem sending to @xtra.co.nz - I can send to SOME xtra.co.nz addresses, but not others. Furthermore, any recipients that do not use xtra webmail have to go to their webmail and check their spam folder, and add me as 'safe sender' or enable spam forwarding.

Why was this not the default during the Yahoo/Xtra migration? I am sure there are a lot of Xtra users out there with legitimate emails stored in the web based spam folders. And why is my email being flagged as spam when I am on the same network?

It is not a good feeling not knowing if your email is going to be received or not. Hopefully you will receive this ;-)

Same problem here, they wanted me to fill in all this crap for yahoo about what bulk emails I send and what my complaint process is and do I have double opt in etc.

I decided to stuff it and live with the fact that xtra people have to go to their junk folder to see it. Its mainly trademe users that I have had issues with so you just put a feedback on them that they havent answered and to check their junk folder, once they get one on there other people who cant email them start to do the same and their feedback starts to have loads of blue faces over it till they sort it out.

Richard rich.ms

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