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Jazzed

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#27488 28-Oct-2008 10:53
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Hey got a quick question.  Tried a new Telecom 2wire Wireless DSL router at home last night.  You can only input @xtra.co.nz usernames and by default there is one in there which it connects with. 

Problem is I am with Orcon.... so.... my big question is how is data calculated and charged??? 

I dont have a plan with xtra, so if I connect using their default connection settings and use their bandwidth, who does it get charged to?  Can I surf for free?? :)

heheheh and also does anyone know of any firmware to flash these devices with, after a quick search I cant find anything.

Cheers

J.

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billgates
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  #174019 28-Oct-2008 11:46
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data usage is tied to an account. that's weired, if you have orcon provisoned on that line then that xtra username/password should not work at all....




Do whatever you want to do man.

  

 
 
 

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Jazzed

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  #174022 28-Oct-2008 11:49
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Thats what I thought.... which was why I was so suprised to be surfing the web without changing anything.  I thought when DSL was provisioned it was tied into a provider.

Cheers

J

rscole86
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  #174025 28-Oct-2008 12:05
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the extra username and password does not do anything. My 2wire works with and without it on my xtra connection. The only time I need to use it is if I want to use my static IP and something else which I cannot remember now ;)



Jazzed

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  #174026 28-Oct-2008 12:07
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rscole86: the extra username and password does not do anything. My 2wire works with and without it on my xtra connection. The only time I need to use it is if I want to use my static IP and something else which I cannot remember now ;)


Yeah I found that out with a business user not getting any email through to their exchange server.... pwd was wrong but connected anyway.
This is different by the way that I dont have an xtra account, only an orcon one.  It will still connect plugged into the line my orcon is connected to... which I thought it couldnt.

cyril7
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  #174036 28-Oct-2008 12:38
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I think if you are on an new ISAM (ie ADSL2+) then the PPPoA authentication no longer applies, instead the DSLAM port is tied to your account and the port connection action is sent to your ISPs BRAS via DHCP option82 or someother similar mechanism.

So end result is PPPoA is no longer used for authentication on IP based DSLAMs, which includes the Telecom ISAMs, Orcons Nokia/Siemens and vodafones Huwaies.

Cyril

Jazzed

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  #174042 28-Oct-2008 12:46
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Thanks - that makes sense.  It was strange that email through orcon was sent and recieved no worries at all, but when I went to the orcon homepage it said that I wasnt an orcon user and must sign in to see the usage meter...

Will try swapping them around tonight and downloading stuff when checking my usage meter.

Cheers

J.

PenultimateHop
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  #174044 28-Oct-2008 12:54
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cyril7: I think if you are on an new ISAM (ie ADSL2+) then the PPPoA authentication no longer applies, instead the DSLAM port is tied to your account and the port connection action is sent to your ISPs BRAS via DHCP option82 or someother similar mechanism.

So end result is PPPoA is no longer used for authentication on IP based DSLAMs, which includes the Telecom ISAMs, Orcons Nokia/Siemens and vodafones Huwaies.

Cyril

This is not quite correct.  You do not need to use username/password with PPP if you don't want to.  Orcon may choose to authenticate you based on any parameters available to them, which may include the access line ID.  The access line ID can be determined in a few ways, one of which is Option-82 if you are using DHCP/IPoE.

If you are using PPP services and on an Orcon DSLAM, they may be using PADI insertion of the DSLAM access line ID.  If you're on a Telecom DSLAM using UBS/B-UBA, you are likely to be authenticated via your line ID from the LAC - which is prone to change if your DSLAM is re-homed, if Orcon are ignoring the username/password attributes (which are the only reliable attributes for this sort of service).

If you are using IPoE services and on an Orcon DSLAM, they may be using Option-82 insertion in DHCP messaging.  They could also be using other options (RADIUS directly from the DSLAM, or ANCP, or a few proprietary protocols).


Note: It's common in PPP environments for ISPs to allow people to connect even with an invalid username and password, and either provide them restricted performance services or to divert them to a captive portal to identify themselves or advise them to correct their username/password.

Further note: Billing is generally done on a line basis for Telecom; but not necessarily for other operators.  YMMV here.



cyril7
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  #174047 28-Oct-2008 12:59
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Thanks Pen, kinda guessed you would pop up with the real info.

Cyril

PenultimateHop
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  #174073 28-Oct-2008 14:13
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cyril7: Thanks Pen, kinda guessed you would pop up with the real info.

Cyril

No worries.

You might find these interesting:  Broadband Forum (nee DSL-Forum) publishes several standards around the architecture and design of broadband networks.  The two most common architectures for for xDSL are TR-58 (PPP based) and TR-101 (IPoE based).

http://www.broadband-forum.org/technical/download/TR-101.pdf
http://www.broadband-forum.org/technical/download/TR-058.pdf

These are fairly weighty docs that talk about the framework architectures for building broadband networks, and some of the ways you identify, authenticate, and authorise subscribers onto those networks.  There are several evolutions of these documents in progress, but only BBF members can get to them.

cyril7
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  #174084 28-Oct-2008 14:51
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Thanks for the sleeping pills, will wade through them when I get a moment.

Cheers
Cyril

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