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windtow

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#311162 19-Dec-2023 14:55
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A few months ago, my elderly grandmother received notice of the upcoming phase-out of copper infrastructure in her area. The options provided were wireless or fiber connectivity.

 

Initially leaning towards wireless, we discovered upon ringing Spark that it wasn't a option due to a saturated network with all major Internet Service Providers (ISPs). This left us with only one alternative—fiber. However, the challenge lies in the fact that fiber is more expensive than both wireless and copper. Since we only require a landline, my grandmother is adamant about avoiding any "modifications," such as a fiber installation, primarily due to the prolonged installation process that causes her concern and stress.

 

We've learned that Chorus imposes a connection fee, contributing to the elevated cost. Despite multiple calls from Spark inquiring about the transition, my grandmother struggles to comprehend the details due to accent barriers, hindering her from confirming a decision.

 

According to Spark, the withdrawal of copper is scheduled for early next year. I remain sceptical that both Spark and Chorus would disconnect their customers without making "reasonable attempts," as it could damage public relations.

 

The situation appears unjust, especially considering the premature withdrawal of copper infrastructure without concurrent upgrades to cell phone towers. It raises concerns about a potential monopoly in play.


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RunningMan
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  #3173432 19-Dec-2023 15:13
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Fibre is not more expensive than copper. It's cheaper.

 

Fibre is $61 per month

 

Copper is $65.20 per month

 

https://www.spark.co.nz/shop/landline/ 

 

 

 

Fixed wireless is cheaper again, although there may be a stop sell in areas at capacity. Not sure if this applies to the $45 per month plan as well.




Talkiet
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  #3173433 19-Dec-2023 15:14
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I'm not sure I understand your point about a monopoly - Presumably if fibre is available at your grandmother's address, then any one of a number of retail providers can provide a voice solution. By design there aren't multiple fibre providers servicing the same addresses!

 

If voice is the only desired service, is there any chance that she would be able to drive a cellphone? That would be technically an option (and there is no stop-sell process for voice services over the mobile network - so capacity won't be an issue - provided coverage is ok)... I do understand that some people don't want to use a cellphone, or learn to use one - but it's a thought.

 

Finally - Fibre installation will only improve property value and despite the odd horror story, installation is usually fine. You could get added as an authority on the account and manage the installation process as well - I have done that for a couple of elderly relatives in the past.

 

Ultimately, Copper is a service that increasingly costs more to maintain and with the benefits of fibre, it's a minority (and declining) access type - Copper withdrawal is going to happen - it sounds like fibre is available and if the customer doesn't want to take it up, then  that shouldn't hold up the withdrawal I'm afraid (in my personal, non company representing, opinion)

 

Cheers - N

 

 





Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


nztim
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  #3173439 19-Dec-2023 15:33
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Just to clear Chorus can NOT retire copper unless the fibre installation is 100% free

did this notice come from chorus or her ISP?




Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer. 




quickymart
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  #3173445 19-Dec-2023 15:44
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windtow:

 

The situation appears unjust, especially considering the premature withdrawal of copper infrastructure without concurrent upgrades to cell phone towers. It raises concerns about a potential monopoly in play.

 

 

The two situations you describe here are totally unrelated.


  #3173451 19-Dec-2023 15:59
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windtow:

 

We've learned that Chorus imposes a connection fee, contributing to the elevated cost. Despite multiple calls from Spark inquiring about the transition, my grandmother struggles to comprehend the details due to accent barriers, hindering her from confirming a decision.

 

 

if you're in a fibre area, there should be no connection fee.


RunningMan
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  #3173469 19-Dec-2023 16:25
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@windtow does your grandmother need help understanding the different technologies? Is there any specific questions you need answering?

 

To try and answer the points you have raised:

 

1)

windtow:[snip] However, the challenge lies in the fact that fiber is more expensive than both wireless and copper. 

 

As above, this untrue.

 

2) What "modifications" is your grandmother worried about? The ONT process is pretty straightforward and streamlined. Chorus will make a reccomendation as to install location, but ulimately you can override if you think there's a better place.

 

3) Chorus connection fees. Of course they impose a fee for fibre, just as they do for a copper connection. The RSP purchases a wholesale product from Chorus and packages it into a retail offering to a customer, just the same as copper.

 

4) Language barriers and understanding technology. Yep, it can be very difficult. If there's something you/her don't understand then feel free to ask here. Someone will be able to answer it for you.

 

5)

windtow:[snip] I remain sceptical that both Spark and Chorus would disconnect their customers without making "reasonable attempts," as it could damage public relations.

 

The situation appears unjust, especially considering the premature withdrawal of copper infrastructure without concurrent upgrades to cell phone towers. It raises concerns about a potential monopoly in play.

 

They have and continue to make very reasonable attempts. Copper cannot be withdrawn unless fibre rollout is complete. Fibre is better, faster, cheaper, more reliable. The suggestion that copper withdrawl is premature, not sure how to answer that, other than emphasising that it cannot be withdrawn until the faster, cheaper, more reiiable technology is in place. Fibre is the replacement for fixed line copper products, not cellular technology. Cellular is concurrently undergoing massive capacity upgrades (5G, RCG etc.) but is a different target market to fixed line services.

 

 


windtow

11 posts

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  #3173472 19-Dec-2023 16:29
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nztim: Just to clear Chorus can NOT retire copper unless the fibre installation is 100% free

did this notice come from chorus or her ISP?

 

I believe both. First was from Chorus, then from ISP. The timeframes were within the allowed range.


 
 
 

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nztim
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  #3173475 19-Dec-2023 16:32
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windtow:

nztim: Just to clear Chorus can NOT retire copper unless the fibre installation is 100% free

did this notice come from chorus or her ISP?


I believe both. First was from Chorus, then from ISP. The timeframes were within the allowed range.



@Wheelbarrow01 one for you? OP says they are been asked to contribute to a fibre install after getting a copper withdrawal letter.




Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer. 


windtow

11 posts

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  #3173478 19-Dec-2023 16:38
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Talkiet:

 

I'm not sure I understand your point about a monopoly - Presumably if fibre is available at your grandmother's address, then any one of a number of retail providers can provide a voice solution. By design there aren't multiple fibre providers servicing the same addresses!

 

If voice is the only desired service, is there any chance that she would be able to drive a cellphone? That would be technically an option (and there is no stop-sell process for voice services over the mobile network - so capacity won't be an issue - provided coverage is ok)... I do understand that some people don't want to use a cellphone, or learn to use one - but it's a thought.

 

Finally - Fibre installation will only improve property value and despite the odd horror story, installation is usually fine. You could get added as an authority on the account and manage the installation process as well - I have done that for a couple of elderly relatives in the past.

 

Ultimately, Copper is a service that increasingly costs more to maintain and with the benefits of fibre, it's a minority (and declining) access type - Copper withdrawal is going to happen - it sounds like fibre is available and if the customer doesn't want to take it up, then  that shouldn't hold up the withdrawal I'm afraid (in my personal, non company representing, opinion)

 

Cheers - N

 

 

 

 

There isn't much demand for landline only connections, therefore there isn't much competition.

 

She actually has a iPhone 6, she knows how to text and call on it. However, ringing to a landline from a cell phone is expensive and I think she just prefers using a landline sometimes.

 

I know 2talk is a good VOIP ISP. Is it possible to get a landline number for a mobile with cheap calling? That might be an idea.


windtow

11 posts

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  #3173479 19-Dec-2023 16:39
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Jase2985:

 

windtow:

 

We've learned that Chorus imposes a connection fee, contributing to the elevated cost. Despite multiple calls from Spark inquiring about the transition, my grandmother struggles to comprehend the details due to accent barriers, hindering her from confirming a decision.

 

 

if you're in a fibre area, there should be no connection fee.

 

 

What I mean is Chorus charges the ISP a ongoing connection fee. Which is priced into the plan.


Talkiet
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  #3173481 19-Dec-2023 16:41
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Chorus charge ISPs an ongoing fee for copper as well. Which ISPs price into the plan.

 

N





Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


RunningMan
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  #3173483 19-Dec-2023 16:44
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windtow: However, ringing to a landline from a cell phone is expensive and I think she just prefers using a landline sometimes.

 

Several unlimted calls mobile plans that would be cheaper than a landline. Skinny @ $40/28 days as an example but not the only one.


windtow

11 posts

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  #3173486 19-Dec-2023 16:51
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RunningMan:

 

@windtow does your grandmother need help understanding the different technologies? Is there any specific questions you need answering?

 

To try and answer the points you have raised:

 

1)  windtow:[snip] However, the challenge lies in the fact that fiber is more expensive than both wireless and copper.

 

As above, this untrue.

 

2) What "modifications" is your grandmother worried about? The ONT process is pretty straightforward and streamlined. Chorus will make a reccomendation as to install location, but ulimately you can override if you think there's a better place.

 

3) Chorus connection fees. Of course they impose a fee for fibre, just as they do for a copper connection. The RSP purchases a wholesale product from Chorus and packages it into a retail offering to a customer, just the same as copper.

 

4) Language barriers and understanding technology. Yep, it can be very difficult. If there's something you/her don't understand then feel free to ask here. Someone will be able to answer it for you.

 

5) windtow:[snip] I remain sceptical that both Spark and Chorus would disconnect their customers without making "reasonable attempts," as it could damage public relations.

 

The situation appears unjust, especially considering the premature withdrawal of copper infrastructure without concurrent upgrades to cell phone towers. It raises concerns about a potential monopoly in play.

 

They have and continue to make very reasonable attempts. Copper cannot be withdrawn unless fibre rollout is complete. Fibre is better, faster, cheaper, more reliable. The suggestion that copper withdrawl is premature, not sure how to answer that, other than emphasising that it cannot be withdrawn until the faster, cheaper, more reiiable technology is in place. Fibre is the replacement for fixed line copper products, not cellular technology. Cellular is concurrently undergoing massive capacity upgrades (5G, RCG etc.) but is a different target market to fixed line services.

 

 

 

 

     

  1. I was thinking about the old prices. They have increased alot now.
  2. Mainly change, I wouldn't say she has any constructive reasons.
  3. See other reply.
  4. I know a decent amount about network technology, so I am able to explain to her and I have been involved with fibre installs in other houses. However, she doesn't want to know and isn't interested.
  5. I personally would stay far away from wireless for internet for my own use. Latency is too high, etc. However that isn't the case for VOIP

 

 


windtow

11 posts

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  #3173491 19-Dec-2023 16:54
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nztim:@Wheelbarrow01 one for you? OP says they are been asked to contribute to a fibre install after getting a copper withdrawal letter.

 

No, no. I am referring to the withdrawal notice.

 

Not sure whether the fibre installation would be free, as we have not involved chorus yet. However, based on previous experience this would be a simple install.


nztim
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  #3173493 19-Dec-2023 17:05
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windtow:

nztim:@Wheelbarrow01 one for you? OP says they are been asked to contribute to a fibre install after getting a copper withdrawal letter.


No, no. I am referring to the withdrawal notice.


Not sure whether the fibre installation would be free, as we have not involved chorus yet. However, based on previous experience this would be a simple install.



Then move to Fibre job done why muck around with anything else?

Fibre landline is cheaper than cooper landline




Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer. 


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