3g?

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s.joseph

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#4044 12-May-2005 20:32

i was wondering is telecom t3g goin to be faster than vf 3g (even though they say that vf can go 10.4) is telstra making a 3g network ? how fast will it b?

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#14645 12-May-2005 20:38

up to 14.4 mega bits is HSDPA and thats what vodafone is not launching with. They are launching with W-CDMA

timbo

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#14648 12-May-2005 21:58

It will be very interesting to see what speed Vodafone does launch with. Real world is likely to be around 200kbps, but remember that is only in the downlink. The uplink direction (or 'send') will probably only be 64kbps.

There are rumours however that Vodafone has something up their sleeve for launch. Could be wider 3G coverage than expected, or perhaps upgrading non-3G part of networ to EDGE, which provides around 100-130kbps. We'll see.

At the end of the day most users I talk with want a steady 100-200kbps everywhere, with reasonably low latency. That would allow most applications to perform pretty well. Talk of islands of 2+Mbps when large parts of the network only deliver 30-90kbps is a bit silly.

Jama

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#14665 13-May-2005 14:17

s.joseph

To answer your questions. Yes - Telecom 3G is faster (up to 2.4Mbps) than Voda 3G (up to 384Kbps).

Telstra have CDMA EVDO (same as Telecom) and they also own 50% of Hutchison who have a UMTS (WCDMA) network which is the same as what Voda are launching.

sbiddle

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#14666 13-May-2005 14:18

The Vodafone Group have not deployed EDGE anywhere in the world so I doubt you'll see it in NZ. I've yet to actually find a single person at Vodafone who can tell me why Vodafone see no need for EDGE when numerous other carriers around the world are seeing a market for it in areas that cannot justify the $ spend on a 3GSM upgrade.

HSDPA is still probably a year off at least, while there is plenty of testing going on and test data cards available there has been a few things mentioned lately of a launch of compatible hardware early to mid next year. I know Vodafone are playing with it and are apparently one of the Vodafone group test networks.

tonyhughes

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#14693 14-May-2005 18:36

voda upload on WCDMA is theoretical max 64kbps (?) (new 3g areas only once launched)
telecom upload on CDMA1x is average 120kbps (existing nationwide)

timbo

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#14695 14-May-2005 20:42

It is correct that no other Vodafone operator has implemented EDGE but an increasing number of other European operators are, e.g. Orange (FR), Swisscom, Mobilkom (Austria), in addition to US (Cingular/AT&T) several parts of Asia etc.

But no other Vodafone operator is up against CDMA, unless you include Vodafone Aus but firstly VF Aus is only #3 player in that market and very small in business, secondly Telstra has not pushed CDMA very aggressively.

EDGE would provide similar or perhaps slightly better bandwidth than CDMA 1X.

Vodafone's problem is that the drop from 3G to GPRS will be very significant and their 3G coverage is unlikely to be as good at Telecom. It is also much easier and cheaper for Telecom to continue to expand 3G coverage than it is for Vodafone.

BTW - we've noticed CDMA 1X performing better lately, very reliable 100-120kbps. But EVDO seems to have dropped off in AK city during business hours, down to a still respectable 250kbps, but not 500 any more.

sbiddle

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#14705 15-May-2005 20:16

BTW - we've noticed CDMA 1X performing better lately, very reliable 100-120kbps. But EVDO seems to have dropped off in AK city during business hours, down to a still respectable 250kbps, but not 500 any more.

That's everybody getting sucked into the Telecom advertising on all the bus stops and watching movie trailers while they wait for the non existant buses! :-)

I think Vodafone are going to have a very hard job selling 3G in NZ. Telecom have a very slick package at the moment and have the big advantage that EVDO is really just a data upgrade, not an entirely new network. The fact that 3GSM services such as video calling which will give Vodafone a big selling point over Telecom are only going to be available in the major metropolitan areas may well be a big turnoff. I think one of their biggest hopes will be people buying the 3GSM handsets based on their capabilities such as the new Nokia and SE MP3 models.

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tonyhughes

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#14706 15-May-2005 20:23

re: better handsets in sbiddles prev post - yes, but Telecom is finally starting to play that game too. They have just launched the 6255 which has an integrated MMC slot and MP3 player (accepts up to 1gb cards).

I think the handset wars will come to an end in most users eyes over the next 2 years as all manufacturers for all networks get some good gear happening.

(then up to the Telcos to get it in.... which Telecom has failed at dismally in the past, but is starting to do better i think)

Liamz

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#14961 23-May-2005 19:17

Hey what's the latency like on T3G (in a good coverage area)?

tonyhughes

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#14962 23-May-2005 19:23

I know its very low, but I cant remember exact figures.

I think someone mentioned around 200ms ? (Does that sound good?)

That was a while ago though, on a fairly unladen network.

SNicolle

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#14964 23-May-2005 19:35

when i had the use of a harrier at launch latency was amazing as was bandwidth in karori (suburban wellington) I got 1079kbps which was might impressive on a side note

tonyhughes

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#14965 23-May-2005 19:46

4 weeks ago i got just over 1Mbit whilst being a passenger on the motorway at 100kmph :-)

Drove through lots of areas north of the city and got really good speeds too. Top speed that day was about 1.4Mbit.

I live in a 1x area and always get about 114kbps even with 1 bar of signal.

All speeds above quoted using a Sierra A580. I have a Harrier too, but have never speed tested it. Should be about the same. Harriers do have a lower upper speed limit though (but I think that limit is still higher than current speeds)

Jama

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#14969 24-May-2005 08:13

Harrier and AirCard upper speeds are the same - both up to 2.4Mbps. Some carriers overseas introduce what is called a 'Watchdog' which restricts the device top speed to 1.2Mbps. This is because they use T1's for back haul which have a max throughput of 1.4Mbps. Telecom use E1's which have a max throughout of 2Mbps and on some cell sites Telecom have dual E1's which are load balanced. Telecom have removed the 'Watchdog' from devices meaning you can achieve (in the right circumstances) up to 2.4Mbps.

The averge latency on EVDO for a 32byte return ping is 120ms. I have seen as low as 90ms.

tonyhughes

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#14970 24-May-2005 08:18

thanks Jama.

On 1x the max speed is 153kbps, and I have had 151kpbs repeated over three different tests before. So maximum speeds are obtainable under the right conditions sometimes.

Jama

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#14975 24-May-2005 10:06

Speed allocation is quite different between 1xRTT and EVDO.

1xRTT:

Each user is given an initial speed of 9600bps (fundamental channel) and then additional speed (up to an extra 153Kbps) is allocated on a required basis (supplementary channel) depending on what you are doing. For example if you are only download 2KB it is likely that you will only achieve 9600bps (fundamental) however if you are downloading 1MB you will burst into the supplemental for additional speeds of up to 153kbps. This means that the max speed of 1xRTT is 163kbps (9.6kbps plus 153kbps).

EVDO:

EVDO operates very differentially. The initial connect speed on EVDO is 38kbps and then based on capacity (how many other users) the speed steps up like this:
38kbps - initial
76kbps
153kbps
307kbps
and then multiples of 307kbps up to 2.4mbps.

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