What happens to the CDMA Network once its off?

Forums › Spark New Zealand › What happens to the CDMA Network once its off?

tardtasticx

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Topic # 66781 23-Aug-2010 16:43

This thought struck me just now, what happens when they turn the CDMA network off? Do they dismantle all the towers? Sell the network to a company who wants to start a CDMA network for private use/start their own telco? Just wondering thats all. Would seem a waste in my opinion if they didn't sell it. So many people could still use their phones, and telecom could make a few dollars out of it.

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Reply # 371640 23-Aug-2010 16:46

i imagine telecom would dismantle and sell overseas.. they would want to keep the current cdma bandwidth for xt

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johnr

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Reply # 371642 23-Aug-2010 16:48

You could not sell the hardware in NZ as the 850 band is required for XT

Once the CDMA network is off someone will have a fun job removing all the hardware / Panels on the cells

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nickb800

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Reply # 371653 23-Aug-2010 16:56

I think the towers will have 'bits' for their new network on them, so it would only be the cdma electronics that are left over.

Given the price of radio spectrum in developed nations, noone could make a profit with this gear since it offers limited services (voice, txt, lowspeed data) and is unlikely to be developed further (most networks switching to wcdma and LTE). Could be good for a developing nation, but parts and expertise might become hard to come by, although some US networks run similar gear (?)
Would be a lovely charity promo - send in your old cdma phone and give [insert small poor nation here] a phone for every citizen and cell network! But it probably wouldnt stack up financially, once your're building towers etc you might as well do it properly plus 3g data might become viable for countries with no exisiting telco infrastructure.

Did anyone happen to snap up 025/TDMA gear off trademe? :p

graemeh

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Reply # 371658 23-Aug-2010 16:59

I wonder how much of the gear will just remain in place. They will only remove it if it makes economic sense to do so (e.g. they need the space for something else).

tardtasticx

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Reply # 371682 23-Aug-2010 17:24

graemeh: I wonder how much of the gear will just remain in place. They will only remove it if it makes economic sense to do so (e.g. they need the space for something else).

They could do what they do in the US to disguise their cell towers, turn them into random buildings or things. like in one town they disguise them as Light Houses, the ones on the shores, except these are in the city and look out of place the none the less awesome :D

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michaelmurfy

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Reply # 371698 23-Aug-2010 17:41

Or they might keep them in place for when the XT network fails again... Who knows.
They can't get rid of it in NZ since it's 850MHz Gear.

Is there any TDMA Equipment left in any of the cell sites?

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KiwiSurfer

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Reply # 371699 23-Aug-2010 17:42

I've been told that with Telecom turned off TDMA they just left most of the gear in place. When XT was being rolled out the guys installing XT gear were apparently also responsible for removing the TDMA gear when room was required on the tower and/or in the base station shelter.

I would guess the same would be the case here. Not much point in going to all the effort to remove the CDMA gear when there's no harm just turning them off and leaving it where it is for now. I guess when Telecom moves to LTE they'll look at switching the CDMA gear out to make room for the LTE gear.

- James

KiwiSurfer

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Reply # 371701 23-Aug-2010 17:44

They could do what they do in the US to disguise their cell towers, turn them into random buildings or things. like in one town they disguise them as Light Houses, the ones on the shores, except these are in the city and look out of place the none the less awesome :D

They do that here too, not just in the US. :)

- James

munchkin

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Reply # 371761 23-Aug-2010 19:05

Orange/Hutchinson/3 in Australia left their CDMA gear running, and in many places, it's still operational; The Whirlpool forums have many threads where it's been noted that for several years it was used internally. Unfortunately all connection attempts by invalid ESN's are bounced back.

The new VHA has started repurposing the frequency for WCDMA in some areas (IIRC, at this stage only state capitals) according to Whirlpool and my iPhone, too. Makes sense as they have a whole bunch of 3 customers with Mega-G handsets as well as their iPhone users.

Irony of all ironies, Telecom NZ owned some 850MHz spectrum in Australia through AAPT, which then sold it to Orange for the use in their CDMA network, which is now owned by Vodafone.

All information contained in posts made by me shall be treated as PotatoZoo's own personal opinion unless otherwise specified.

nzbnw

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Reply # 371816 23-Aug-2010 20:33

munchkin: Orange/Hutchinson/3 in Australia left their CDMA gear running, and in many places, it's still operational; The Whirlpool forums have many threads where it's been noted that for several years it was used internally. Unfortunately all connection attempts by invalid ESN's are bounced back.

The new VHA has started repurposing the frequency for WCDMA in some areas (IIRC, at this stage only state capitals) according to Whirlpool and my iPhone, too. Makes sense as they have a whole bunch of 3 customers with Mega-G handsets as well as their iPhone users.

Irony of all ironies, Telecom NZ owned some 850MHz spectrum in Australia through AAPT, which then sold it to Orange for the use in their CDMA network, which is now owned by Vodafone.

Yep also read that one where VFAU customers are using 850MHz only 3G handsets and getting 3G on VFAU. Doesn't seem to be available to '3' customers.

As far as Telecom NZ is concerned, I don't think any money changed hands for the AAPT frequency, it had something to do with Telecom's holding in HTAL IIRC.

Also Vodafone is a JV between Vodafone (Pacific?) and Hutchinson; of which Telecom own's 5% (via 10% of Hutchinson IIRC), so not entirely owned by VF (50%).

nzbnw

munchkin

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Reply # 371837 23-Aug-2010 21:06

nzbnw:
Yep also read that one where VFAU customers are using 850MHz only 3G handsets and getting 3G on VFAU. Doesn't seem to be available to '3' customers.

When I was in Sydney a couple of weeks ago, I was getting 3G coverage with my 3 SIM and spare R100 (850MHz only) - the who can/who can't access policy on their joint networks has to be creating headaches for many people all over the place, and the domestic roaming situation can't be much better! (For those who don't know, VHA has a GSM network and UMTS coverage consisting of three frequencies across one wholly-owned and 2 joint-venture networks. Their '3' customers can also roam nationally on Telstra's NextG when out of 3's Broadband Zone, with various/bizarre exceptions); In their own convoluted way, they have brilliant but terrible coverage.

nzbnw:
As far as Telecom NZ is concerned, I don't think any money changed hands for the AAPT frequency, it had something to do with Telecom's holding in HTAL IIRC.

Also Vodafone is a JV between Vodafone (Pacific?) and Hutchinson; of which Telecom own's 5% (via 10% of Hutchinson IIRC), so not entirely owned by VF (50%).
nzbnw

No cash, more of a swap of stock and frequency for shares; TBH, I think it's quite interesting to see which companies own (parts of) others

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BarTender

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Reply # 372877 25-Aug-2010 22:34

KiwiSurfer: I've been told that with Telecom turned off TDMA they just left most of the gear in place. When XT was being rolled out the guys installing XT gear were apparently also responsible for removing the TDMA gear when room was required on the tower and/or in the base station shelter.

I would guess the same would be the case here. Not much point in going to all the effort to remove the CDMA gear when there's no harm just turning them off and leaving it where it is for now. I guess when Telecom moves to LTE they'll look at switching the CDMA gear out to make room for the LTE gear.

- James

I've seen the non-prod CDMA radio gear and the XT radio gear side by side in Wellington. And the CDMA stuff is about 4 - 5 times larger in footprint (think 8 racks side by side) than the XT (one - two racks). The only things that don't get sigificantly smaller are the panels up on the towers, and to a lesser degree the transmitters.

So I would guess there is very little point moving large and heavy equipment out of a site unless you needed the space, or it was worth your while financially to do it. The power costs, and all the backend infrastructure needed to run a mobile network would mean I doubt there was much value in any of the equipment anymore, unless another telco that is still running the same gear wanted spares.

One could also take a punt that the LTE stuff will be smaller still.

graemeh

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Reply # 373038 26-Aug-2010 10:56

BarTender:
KiwiSurfer: I've been told that with Telecom turned off TDMA they just left most of the gear in place. When XT was being rolled out the guys installing XT gear were apparently also responsible for removing the TDMA gear when room was required on the tower and/or in the base station shelter.

I would guess the same would be the case here. Not much point in going to all the effort to remove the CDMA gear when there's no harm just turning them off and leaving it where it is for now. I guess when Telecom moves to LTE they'll look at switching the CDMA gear out to make room for the LTE gear.

- James

I've seen the non-prod CDMA radio gear and the XT radio gear side by side in Wellington. And the CDMA stuff is about 4 - 5 times larger in footprint (think 8 racks side by side) than the XT (one - two racks). The only things that don't get sigificantly smaller are the panels up on the towers, and to a lesser degree the transmitters.

So I would guess there is very little point moving large and heavy equipment out of a site unless you needed the space, or it was worth your while financially to do it. The power costs, and all the backend infrastructure needed to run a mobile network would mean I doubt there was much value in any of the equipment anymore, unless another telco that is still running the same gear wanted spares.

One could also take a punt that the LTE stuff will be smaller still.

Don't bet on it

When they went from D-AMPS to CDMA the new gear took up far more space (well at least the gear I was shown did).

KiwiSurfer

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Reply # 373135 26-Aug-2010 14:22

Was that including the analogue AMPS gear?

- James

langi27

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Reply # 373138 26-Aug-2010 14:33

They won't remove the antenna's either, 2 reasons:

They will lose the right to install another one (once you take it down you can't put it back up), unless they go back to their local council and apply for reasource consent which can take months and months. So a dead antenna is used like a placeholder until LTE is ready to go then they will go and swap the old CDMA antenna's for new LTE ones.

2nd reason is that it would free up space (good space too,usually at the heighest point on the tower) for 2degrees to co-locate without 2degrees incurring much cost by way of tower strengthening or new antenna mounts a win-win for 2degrees and loose-loose for telecom.

Like in a previous post the only thing they'll do it turn it off at the wall and maybe turn off some of the aircon keeping it cool.

A few years from now they will replace it when the floor space is required for LTE/Wimax or whatever.

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