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zombiewan

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#73012 7-Dec-2010 11:32
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Hello,


After trolling numerous Gizmodo pages, I am becoming more and more frustrated by the loose application of the term 4G. 

T-Mobile, Sprint and Verizon are each building "4G" networks, capable of "4G" speeds.  Sprint has chosen to deploy WiMax, Verizon has picked LTE and T-Mobile has decided that HSPA+ qualifies as 4G and have deployed across the country.  I've included the graphic from lifehacker below for interests sake.

Now what frustrates me is that these three carriers are all bragging about 4G networks when the speeds achieved are no higher than speeds currently available in NZ.  People bag on NZ operators all the time when in reality our speeds tend to be great.






My question is, how do these three American carriers get away with what looks like blatant false advertising.  It was my understanding that the ITU decided the industry standards for 4G not the Telco's.  To make matters worse, T-Mobile isn't even using a next-gen standard (please correct me if I'm wrong), they have deployed HSPA+!  Cheeky buggers, these are speeds and standards already implemented in NZ!  Should our Telco's start calling their networks 4G?

The American tech media has been going nuts recently about 4G but the article below is the one that inspired this rant.

http://lifehacker.com/5706644/everything-you-need-to-know-about-4g-mobile-broadband


I'd be interested in everybodies views


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scorpiworld
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  #413974 7-Dec-2010 11:52
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Conspiracy theory #1

I blame Apple and that iPhone 4 using 3G ;) After the iPhone 3G and 3GS, an iPhone 4G it is easily mis-communicated and confuses customers in to thinking they are getting better speeds than before on a new network.

Been following this spat with the US carriers on Engadget and it is mildly amusing what they can get away with.



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  #413975 7-Dec-2010 11:53
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US operators make this up all the time. There was a time some handsets were coming out with "3G" and capable of 384 Kbps (which is 3G) but then they decided that 3G should be faster, so they removed those handsets from the market, and rebranded the whole thing.

Basically they keep moving the goals to make it easier for then to outpace the other operators - all while creating confusion.





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tumnasgt
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  #414005 7-Dec-2010 13:22
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freitasm: US operators make this up all the time. There was a time some handsets were coming out with "3G" and capable of 384 Kbps (which is 3G) but then they decided that 3G should be faster, so they removed those handsets from the market, and rebranded the whole thing.

Basically they keep moving the goals to make it easier for then to outpace the other operators - all while creating confusion.



EDGE is also technically 3G, but I have never seen it advertised as such. 

3G requires 200kb/s peak downlink, and the ability to have voice and data operate simultaneously.

"Speed requirements for 4G service set the peak download speed at 100Mbit/s for high mobility devices (such as cellphones) and 1 Gbit/s for low mobility devices (such as standalone wireless modems)." - Wikipedia page on 4G 

So although EDGE is almost 50% faster than what is required for 3G, it is advertised as 2G. And at the same time, US networks are advertising 4G, even though their service would need to be 5-10x faster than what it is to be 4G.




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zombiewan

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  #414009 7-Dec-2010 13:35
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I'm fairly certain EDGE doesn't qualify as 3G as it does not allow for simultaneous voice and data sessions.  This was a major point of the standard IIRC.

Isn't it false advertising?

tumnasgt
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  #414010 7-Dec-2010 13:38
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zombiewan: I'm fairly certain EDGE doesn't qualify as 3G as it does not allow for simultaneous voice and data sessions.  This was a major point of the standard IIRC.



I had forgotten about EDGE not being able to do simultaneous data and voice. I'm always in 3G coverage or at home with WiFi (where 2degrees has no 3G signal)




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quickymart
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  #414027 7-Dec-2010 14:09
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I thought EDGE was 2.5G?

 
 
 
 

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tumnasgt
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  #414076 7-Dec-2010 15:29
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quickymart: I thought EDGE was 2.5G?


"2.5G" is just marketing, only 1G, 2G, 3G, and 4G have been defined by the ITU. It is 2G, though it does meet the speed requirement for 3G, but not the requirement for simultaneous voice and data.




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PenultimateHop
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  #415159 9-Dec-2010 17:41
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T-Mobile will go to LTE soon-ish; they are just saying "our HSPA network [which is part of our upgrade to 4G/LTE] will give you equivalent speeds to our competitors 4G networks" in marketing speak.

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  #415261 9-Dec-2010 21:21
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And the ITU-R say 4G is technically a minimum of 100Mbps down for mobile devices, and 1Gbps for fixed wireless devices.

PenultimateHop
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  #415316 9-Dec-2010 22:52
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sbiddle: And the ITU-R say 4G is technically a minimum of 100Mbps down for mobile devices, and 1Gbps for fixed wireless devices.

I believe it is peak rate rather than mimimum rate.  I have seen >100M on LTE in the lab; however there are a number of other requirements to meet ITU-R requirement for "4G".

Of course, does anyone really care what the ITU thinks? Especially in marketing?

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#415317 9-Dec-2010 22:59
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tumnasgt:EDGE is also technically 3G, but?I have never seen it advertised as such.?


No its not even close as it works over the 2G packet switch netwrok TDMA


 
 
 

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PenultimateHop
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  #417432 15-Dec-2010 08:15
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I saw this article this morning quoting an ITU press release thus:

ITU:
It is recognized that this term, while undefined, may also be applied to the forerunners of these technologies, LTE and WiMax, and to other evolved 3G technologies providing a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities with respect to the initial third-generation systems now deployed.


So it seems even ITU is changing their opinion.

NonprayingMantis
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  #418478 17-Dec-2010 12:32
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zombiewan: I'm fairly certain EDGE doesn't qualify as 3G as it does not allow for simultaneous voice and data sessions.  This was a major point of the standard IIRC.

Isn't it false advertising?


this ITU paper would disagree with you
http://www.itu.int/ITU-D/imt-2000/DocumentsIMT2000/IMT-2000.pdf


same for wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Data_Rates_for_GSM_Evolution
EDGE is considered a 3G radio technology and is part of ITU's 3G definition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3G
see the list of technologies cosidered 3G - EDGE is in there.


Behodar
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  #418483 17-Dec-2010 12:53
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PenultimateHop: I saw this article this morning quoting an ITU press release thus:

ITU:
It is recognized that this term, while undefined, may also be applied to the forerunners of these technologies, LTE and WiMax, and to other evolved 3G technologies providing a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities with respect to the initial third-generation systems now deployed.


So it seems even ITU is changing their opinion.

So when will Telecom start advertising HSPA+ 4G? :P

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