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113 posts

Master Geek


Topic # 8359 23-Jun-2006 10:44
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This has probably been asked a hundred times but my stupid eyes couldn't find a Search button on here.

I'm doing renovations and am going to tackle rewiring the phones. My office is at home and I know which wires are which lines.
I have 2 lines one for fax and Broadband and use it as a second line out when the family is using the main line. Which is only really between 4-5pm at the end of each day. I was thinking of putting all business on one line and private on the other but can't really make this move while my customers still use the fax (would love to move them all to email but a lot of trades people arn't quite there yet). Fax, phone and broadband one one line as a business only line won't work as fax and phone clash.

I'm going to rewire all branches (star system) back to a main connection point in the office area where the main feed comes in. Then run the branches/slaves of that! I'll use portable/chargable pones so will only need a max of 5 slaves off the main box to get the house covered.

Line 1 (Phone only)
Master box office
slave office
slave garage
slave downstairs bedroom
slave Master bed
slave Dining /Kitchen

Line 2
Master box-Running-Networked Broadband , Fax and Spare phone

Jeepers didn't mean to write a book!!
Line 2 is no problem as its just one jack point with a double adapter in it

My question is
Do I need a special connection box for the Master point on line one as it takes so many slaves or can I just connect all branches into each other in the back of a telecom jack point box or may be join them all then loop one master wire back to the box to avoid the clutter in the back of the box

Secondly Do I still have to run the blue ringer to each slave my present wiring doesn't seem to do this but the phones still ring so I can only surmise new technology phones have made this redundent.

Thanks in advance

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Hawkes Bay
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  Reply # 39428 23-Jun-2006 10:56
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Google search box in sidebar defaults to searching Geekzone only... :-)







Hawkes Bay
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  Reply # 39430 23-Jun-2006 11:00
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Just did my house.

Replaced all sockets with slaves, as apparently the digital exchanges render the master/slave differentation obsolete (I could be wrong, but everything works).

Star is good, so if one goes down, or a rat chews a cable or whatever, you dont bring your whole phone network down.

Too many connections on a line can increase line noise and lower data speeds.
To much load on the line can cause phones to not ring (although in practise i have never seen it happen, although im sure it does),

I just wired everything up as two wire, took stuff all time, and works a treat. No line noise.







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  Reply # 39433 23-Jun-2006 11:19
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tonyhughes: Just did my house.

Replaced all sockets with slaves, as apparently the digital exchanges render the master/slave differentation obsolete (I could be wrong, but everything works).


You need to use either all 2 wire or the old Master/Slave jackpoints. Mixing both together is guaranteed to cause problems. The master used to generate a ring/tinkle signal carried on the 3rd wire which is no longer required.

If you're buying new jackpoints now then finding old master/slave ones may be a mission unless you go to an electrical wholesaler. Your best bet is to just replace all jackpoints with the new 2 wire jackpoints. You can also wire things in a star configuration or in series, it doesn't really matter.




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  Reply # 39442 23-Jun-2006 12:01
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The old Master/Slave style were normally used in series as the connectors could only reliably take 2 wires each. The later 2 wire style had 3 insulation displacement terminals for each leg of the line. Telecom instructions are probably to use 1 for each wire but provided each wire is same size you should be able to plug 2 into each slot. The ability to ring from 2 wires is a phone thing not related to exchange. http://www.telepermit.co.nz/Ptc103.html gives details and http://www.telepermit.co.nz/nl158.html#sec2 refers to latest style jacks.



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  Reply # 39449 23-Jun-2006 14:44
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Thanks all

DUH!! Tony how could I miss the Google search box. Actually probably thought it was genaral google and didn't look close enough to see the Geekzone button, Thanks anyway!
 And thanks all for your help it is good to head off into the job with a little confirmation I'm not using the wrong stuff.

I'll take it for granted that the ones I have now with the yellow resitor with 105Ketc on it are the 2 wire ones.

Concerning the main juction I'll probably twist all of the common slave internal wires together. Then twist them to the main feeds, bit of vasiline to stop corrosion and slip a cable connector over the lot to get a good connection.

Don't have to worry about data loss on Broadband as my whole house is networked and the network switch plugs directly into the DSL modem which in turn goes directly into line 2. Only need one Master Jack point and one filter with this system.

Thanks a bunch to all.

Regards

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  Reply # 39455 23-Jun-2006 15:49
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As others have said, according to telecom rules you should not mix old three wire sockets with two wire ones. Old three wire sockets come in M for master and S for Slave, new two wire ones are clearly marked 2 to indicate two wire, these markings are mandatory and all sockets sport them. You can mix them, if you know what you are doing, but best practice is to replace them all with 2Wire ones.

With the 2Wire system there is no Master or Slave, they are all just the same. All two wire sockets have a 1uF capacitor in them to support the ringing circuit of older three wire devices. Most newer pots devices are two wire only and have an internal capacitor to extract the ringing circuit.

With 2Wire circuits there should be a high impeadance test resistor at the demarcation point, this resistor used to be in the Master socket, but now telecom place it at the demarcation point and not any of the 2Wire sockets. This is only needed if you have a line maintanence contract with telecom, they will soon work out if you have lost it, dont know if they charge to replace it, but it only applies if you pay the monthly maintenance fee (which I would recommend you drop).

Oh and Tony your comment about new digital exchanges not worring about the third wire, this is not true, what is true is that modern pots devices draw virtually no ringer current, therefore the need for all the ringers to be piped through on coupling capacitor (which ulitimately limited how much ringing current you can draw) is no longer an issue. Therefore each socket can have its own ringer capacitor or mentioned most modern pots devices have their own built in capacitor therefore only two wires are needed.

Cyril

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  Reply # 39457 23-Jun-2006 16:07
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Don't worry about wiring maintenance contracts if you're twisting wires together. They'll find some way of blaming any fault on substandard work ;-) The 3rd wire was mainly needed when decadic pulse telephones were around so that bells could be shunted during dialling.



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Reply # 39647 26-Jun-2006 12:36
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Thanks for all your help!

I have some of those telecom push together jointers so I'll use those where ever I can to avoid the substandard workmanship thing.

Regards

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