Why there is no more Nokia CDMA phones

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paradoxsm

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Topic # 8452 1-Jul-2006 00:57

Nokia got information and licences to use the CDMA 1RxTT and CDMA2000 CDMA technologies, Apparently Nokia obtained info for the CDMA 1X tecnology but did not pay the promised royalties to Qualcomm.

Qualcomm as a result won't give them access to use the EVDO chipset/info so Nokia can't compete when every phone as a standard becomes EVDO. They will make some last cutting-edge 1RxTT phones before dumping the CDMA format to focus more attention on (hopefully better) GSM handsets.

Currently those EVDO models Known are HTC Harrier & Apache, Sanyo 9000, Samsung a920 & 900, and the data card, Maybe the 7500 is too?

I have to say, Nokia (TI?) did a good job on the CDMA chipset, the speech quality is top-notch and the functions are still open (ringtones, Obex support, bluetooth, MMS etc) After much to-do ing I have decided on a Nokia 6235 but I will be implenting some way of bettering that horrid joystick.

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Reply # 40259 1-Jul-2006 10:49

Look, I don't know if your topic title is a question or you stating that you found the secret behind Nokia's decision.
I think the only thing is to do, just watch the market news:

1.Apparently Vivo, Brazil's largest mobil operator (16 million subscribers) is aquiring for GSM license to change his network from CDMA to GSM or to be more specific to W-CDMA.
2.Watch the Indian mobile market news: their largest CDMA operator Reliance is asking for GSM frequencies, they are planning to move.
3. We all know what is happening in Australia, where Telstra is switched to 3G.
4. Korean EV-DO pioneers have started their WCDMA network
.
.

So I think Nokia have decided not to invest in a diminishing market any more, they will slowly pull out.
Why would you invest huge money in R&D and manufacturing when the market is shrinking and you will not be able to bring the handset volumes in the future?

I is a kollege stoodent. Bee nice.

freitasm

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Reply # 40260 1-Jul-2006 10:55

Yes, yes... I was reading a Brazilian IT magazine this morning and got to the news about Vivo planning to deploy GSM, and some analysis.

While only the company knows exactly why, I read in that magazine the same wrong idea: GSM is better than CDMA, and faster... Pleeeease! And please do not start the standards fight again, I just used that as an example of perception. Companies will move to where perception is.

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sbiddle

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Reply # 40265 1-Jul-2006 12:29

It looks like the Beta vs VHS debate all over again. Both have advantages and disadvantages but at the end of the day the product that ends up with the biggest market share tends to win over. Exactly the same thing is going to happen with the Blu-Ray vs HD DVD - only one format can win.

paradoxsm

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Reply # 40274 1-Jul-2006 15:00

I think the Beta vs VHS is probably the best, They have pushed the opposition network as it's seen to be the upgrade path for GSM, even though clearly the 027 CDMA coverage footprint, services and RF bands mimics that of GSM much more than UMTS ever will.

It has become clear that the future of CDMA and all it's upgrades is to become end-of-life though my guess is that CDMA 1xRTT and EVDO will in about 5 years cease to be a common mobile network (due to lack of handset verndors) and become a very efficient data network to provide "last mile" VoIP phone and broadband services running at unbelivable speeds at a very low spectrum (800MHz) akin to Woosh, but reliable

PS, I think Blu-ray will win if that playstation 3 comes out early enough and can play homebrew footage.

SpiderNZ

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Reply # 40302 2-Jul-2006 07:10

A couple of things separate CDMA and GSM, the first of which is global roaming and the ability to easily switch hand-sets.

Altho the coverage foot prints may be similar, traveling to Australia or the Philippines and not having to acquire a 'localized' phone is a major bonus.

As an added bonus, being a GSM user, means that I can easily switch handsets. For example. altho I love my Jasjar I wouldn't take it with me when I go off-roading. Instead of being phoneless, I just move my SIM card from the Jasjar to my (less featured) Nokia.

Of course being able to transfer your SIM card has the added bonus of being able to upgrade your phone when you want and retain your phone number without the hassles of getting your CDMA provider involved.

Jama

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Reply # 40304 2-Jul-2006 10:41

paradoxsm: It has become clear that the future of CDMA and all it's upgrades is to become end-of-life though my guess is that CDMA 1xRTT and EVDO will in about 5 years cease to be a common mobile network (due to lack of handset verndors) and become a very efficient data network to provide "last mile" VoIP phone and broadband services running at unbelivable speeds at a very low spectrum (800MHz) akin to Woosh, but reliable

You are almost right - almost. EVDO REVA is an all IP network. The future is VoIP with seemless handover to 1xRTT, beyond that 1xRTT ceases to exist and networks become EVDO only. Similar to what will happen in the GSM world. GSM will cease to exist and HSDPA will become the transport for voice and data.

Both GSM and 1xRTT are on the way out. Whether you are on HSDPA or EVDO will become irrelevant through handsets that can acquire and use both networks.

Don't think for one second that the future of GSM type networks is totally certain either. There a numerous bands approved for HSDPA.

BTW - there will still be Nokia branded CDMA handsets.

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em

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Reply # 40420 4-Jul-2006 03:43

SpiderNZ: As an added bonus, being a GSM user, means that I can easily switch handsets.

Many CDMA operators round the world use the R-UIM, equivalent to the GSM SIM card. Telecom, presumably following Sprint, has not seen fit to go this way.

paradoxsm

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Reply # 40457 4-Jul-2006 16:47

the RUIM would be almost a magic bullet for telecom, I'd love one account to be easily switched between multiple devices.

Since Qualcomm own both the CDMA specs, the future shouild still be bright.

Does anyone know whom owns the patents for the "woosh" network,, TD - CDMA?

Aloha

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Reply # 40459 4-Jul-2006 17:12

Since Qualcomm own both the CDMA specs, the future shouild still be bright.

Are you a Qualcomm employee? Or gettin' paid by them?
What is the connection between who is owning the rights and the bright future?

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Jama

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Reply # 40465 4-Jul-2006 17:58

Regardless of royalties, etc. You have to admit that Qualcomm do make damn nice fully integrated and functional chipsets.

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paradoxsm

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Reply # 40467 4-Jul-2006 18:26

Not an employee of qualcomm, kinda work in a "related" industry.

Qualcomm make some very nice chipsets, phone makers have either used it very very well (Sanyo, Samsung) or very badly (LuckyGoldstar-LG) From looking at design specs, it looks quite easy even for layperson to put a fuctional CDMA handset together, The part count is very low also and very intergrated.

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Reply # 40470 4-Jul-2006 21:45

paradoxsm: (LuckyGoldstar-LG)

You like that name 'LuckyGoldstar' don't you

I agree RUIM would be good for Telecom, would enable customers to also remove the RIUM, and 'roam' on a overseas GSM network (with a GSM handset of course), but still retail their local NZ number on that network. Well at least that is my understanding.

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Archangel

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Reply # 42328 24-Jul-2006 15:58

CDMA a 'diminishing market'???

The facts don't bear this out....go check the subscriber uptake for CDMA which has a much faster trajectory than GSM/UMTS though I accept it doesn't have the overall scale of GSM. Rev A is also much *faster* than HSDPA. The latter has abysmal uplink speeds.

Neither is 'Reliance planning to move [from CDMA]'. Reliance use both CDMA and GSM but most of their network is CDMA. Reliance's briefing to analysts earlier this year stated emphaitically that CDMA had much lower operating cost than GSM...by a very significant factor.

sbiddle

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Reply # 42329 24-Jul-2006 16:25

Archangel:
The facts don't bear this out....go check the subscriber uptake for CDMA which has a much faster trajectory than GSM/UMTS though I accept it doesn't have the overall scale of GSM. Rev A is also much *faster* than HSDPA. The latter has abysmal uplink speeds.

Upstream speeds are significantly faster but downstream isn't in terms of pure speed. Most networks are now deploying HSDPA running at 3.6Mbps and at peak burst speed testing seems to show close to this vs 3.1Mbps for EVDO Rev A. Upload is roughly 5x faster on Rev A vs HSDPA but the "CDMA is faster than WCDMA" statement isn't really applicable any longer. I realise Rev A is a *far* superior upgrade than HSDPA (ie QoS support for example) but in terms of pure speed CDMA has temporarily lost the lead. Rev B will fix this though! :-)

freitasm

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Reply # 42330 24-Jul-2006 16:31

Now, now... Please don't turn this into GSM x CDMA.

Back to the topic, Vivo is moving from CDMA to WCDMA. A shame, but being the largest operator in Brazil they will draw the difference between GSM and CDMA technologies numbers even further.

And we are talking an operation with at least 30 millions subscribers. Lucent is their main supplier, but I think Ericsson will be the new one.

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