$69 fee to check if it's possible to cut a cable?

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nigelj

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#93347 18-Nov-2011 15:57

Yesterday I had pretty much the most ridiculous phone call with Telecom in which I was told that it'd cost $69 for a Chorus technician to be sent out, to see if it'd be possible to cut their cable coming into our house, to create a new demarcation point, (it's closer to the exchange, it's in a better position to run a new jackpoint into a bedroom, it'd be the perfect place to put a ADSL splitter etc).

Essentially all we need Telecom to do, is to send someone our, cut their cable, rejoin it, and 'sign over' the rest of the cable to the demarcation point to us, so we can do what we want at the new demaraction point. Now I'm not going to argue over $69 to get someone out to actually do something but it doesn't seem right when it costs $69 to 'get a quote' and risk been told "no I won't do that" when Telecom can't even tell me common reasons why they give that reason ("I can't speak for our technicians" was the exact response).

Most tradespeople are happy to give a free quote, and it's not like there is a shortage of Chorus technicians in the area (we see a Chorus van at least once every two days) and consider this:

Earlier in the year, we were charged, only ~$70-$100 fixed price, for a Chorus technician to climb up a ladder, take down an overhead phone line on our property in the morning, then come back later in the afternoon to climb up again, reattach it, and test it. (We were cutting down a tree).

Can anyone provide some insight into: a) why they might say no, b) why a $70 call out fee for a quote?

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#546984 18-Nov-2011 16:16

Hi, more importantly what will be achieved by doing this, moving it closer to the exchange by 10m will not achieve anything, splitters can be housed in the ETP/demarc (assuming its a standard Telecom one of both older and new style).

Cyril

keewee01

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#546985 18-Nov-2011 16:16

You need to remember that just because the van is labelled Chorus does not mean that the person in the van is a Chorus employee. Most are individual contractors, and they can't afford to give away freebies as they get paid per job from Chorus (ex-Telecom). And it's not much they get per job either.

If you understand the telecoms market, you'll understand why you can't get a freebie.

Bung

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#546986 18-Nov-2011 16:22

Is it the same Overhead? Their consideration there is best run to your house from the pole, the internal layout is secondary. Their demarcation box shouldn't figure in your plans as it is just the connection from network to internal wiring.

nigelj

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#546988 18-Nov-2011 16:30

cyril7: Hi, more importantly what will be achieved by doing this, moving it closer to the exchange by 10m will not achieve anything, splitters can be housed in the ETP/demarc (assuming its a standard Telecom one of both older and new style).

Cyril

I understand that, but the current demarc is in a pretty bad location, I also had a look inside and (imo) it's a mess, and wouldn't be enough space in the 'box' to hold any new equipment, and it's in a pretty bad place to run any new cables, also we are unsure of where exactly the cable runs through the wall, and it's highly likely it runs right behind our mains switchboard (which a sparkie told us a bad thing). Where the cable comes into the house, is open wall & ceiling (garage), directly underneath where two new sockets would logically be placed. Essentially it'd be the perfect place to start retrofitting some star wiring in.

keewee01: You need to remember that just because the van is labelled Chorus does not mean that the person in the van is a Chorus employee. Most are individual contractors, and they can't afford to give away freebies as they get paid per job from Chorus (ex-Telecom). And it's not much they get per job either.

If you understand the telecoms market, you'll understand why you can't get a freebie.

I never said I wanted a freebie, in fact I said "Now I'm not going to argue over $69 to get someone out to actually do something".

What I am saying is why does/should it cost $69 to see if it's possible, and what reasons do Chorus use to say no, so I don't feel like I'd be better off going to the Sky Tower and putting $70 on black.

Edit:

Bung: Is it the same Overhead? Their consideration there is best run to your house from the pole, the internal layout is secondary. Their demarcation box shouldn't figure in your plans as it is just the connection from network to internal wiring.

It goes overhead from the road, to the top of our driveway, underneath our mains power, then it goes underground, into the outside wall of the garage, up to the roof, across the roof (double garage), down & across the wall (in an unknown path/direction) to the current demarc point. As far as Telecom are concerned (and have told us) they are the only ones that can touch that cable, and make a point on the outside wall the demarc point. The consideration for me, is messing with the least amount of gibbed/etc wall as possible to put in two new jacks & a splitter.

keewee01

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#546992 18-Nov-2011 16:39

nigelj:
keewee01: You need to remember that just because the van is labelled Chorus does not mean that the person in the van is a Chorus employee. Most are individual contractors, and they can't afford to give away freebies as they get paid per job from Chorus (ex-Telecom). And it's not much they get per job either.

If you understand the telecoms market, you'll understand why you can't get a freebie.

I never said I wanted a freebie, in fact I said "Now I'm not going to argue over $69 to get someone out to actually do something".

What I am saying is why does/should it cost $69 to see if it's possible, and what reasons do Chorus use to say no, so I don't feel like I'd be better off going to the Sky Tower and putting $70 on black.

You missed the point I was trying to make. Because the "independent technician" sent out by Chorus needs to be paid one way or the other. If they can't do it (for what ever reason - sorry, not in a position to be able to comment on that) they still need to be paid by Chorus/Telecom for their time. That's why you will be charged whether they can do it or not. That's the risk and why it costs.

Bung

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#546993 18-Nov-2011 16:41

nigelj:
I understand that, but the current demarc is in a pretty bad location, I also had a look inside and (imo) it's a mess, and wouldn't be enough space in the 'box' to hold any new equipment,

If this "box" would hold more than a cigarette packet a picture would help establish what it actually was.

Skolink

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#546994 18-Nov-2011 16:48

Just do it yourself.
Back when I had ADSL for a few months I examined the Chorus demark on the bargeboard (which had not been used for years) and it was falling to bits. I removed it, and joined my own Cat5e with gel-filled connectors, and wrapped it in self-amalgamating rubber tape. I ran the Cat5e inside the ceiling to my star wiring point where I put my DSL filter.
I would have put a new demark box on the barge board, but the Chorus cable wouldn't reach to the bargeboard once I had cut back the corroded conductors.

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cyril7

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#546996 18-Nov-2011 16:55

As I mentioned the white ETP boxs both the original and the new ones are designed to contain the master filter, infact the filter was designed to fit in the original box along with a modest amount of wiring/scotch locs, so why not just clean up the wiring on your side, put your filter their and be done with it.

Cyril

nigelj

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#546998 18-Nov-2011 17:05

Bung:
nigelj:
I understand that, but the current demarc is in a pretty bad location, I also had a look inside and (imo) it's a mess, and wouldn't be enough space in the 'box' to hold any new equipment,

If this "box" would hold more than a cigarette packet a picture would help establish what it actually was.

Sorry, of course: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26324334/IMG007.jpg (Black cable is Telecom's, cable coming up from floor, is Sky's job, and the other cable is star wiring to the rest of the house.)

My gut feeling is, trying to place 2x Cat5e runs + a proper filter (such as the Dynamix one) in there would be pretty close to impossible (esp with my large fingers ;)). As you can see it's also much closer than the 300mm that I've been told phone wiring should be kept away from mains wiring as well.

keewee01: You missed the point I was trying to make. Because the "independent technician" sent out by Chorus needs to be paid one way or the other. If they can't do it (for what ever reason - sorry, not in a position to be able to comment on that) they still need to be paid by Chorus/Telecom for their time. That's why you will be charged whether they can do it or not. That's the risk and why it costs.

Sorry yeah, I understand that they are now private contractors (seem to recall that was ~98 or sometime around then), and you do have a point, I won't ignore it, but not knowing ever so slightly what criteria they use to judge if something can be done (i.e. to see if what the chances of it been a complete waste of money), or even what sort of costs beyond the $70, to me is a bit smoke and mirrors. (For instance I saw something like $17/15min for fault diagnostics, on the connection & wiring service page, but the person I spoke to yesterday, couldn't/wouldn't even tell me, what labour rates they charge).

nigelj

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#547004 18-Nov-2011 17:14

Actually, I decided to read PTC 103 (http://www.telepermit.co.nz/Ptc103.pdf) and noticed this:

"1.2.1 (2): Where no ETP is fitted, the demarcation point is the point at which the cable enters the outer wall of the individual home or premises."

So does that mean that Telecom can't actually stop us cutting the black wire where we want? (Should I ring them to clarify?).

keewee01

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#547006 18-Nov-2011 17:18

nigelj:
Bung:
nigelj:
I understand that, but the current demarc is in a pretty bad location, I also had a look inside and (imo) it's a mess, and wouldn't be enough space in the 'box' to hold any new equipment,

If this "box" would hold more than a cigarette packet a picture would help establish what it actually was.

Sorry, of course: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26324334/IMG007.jpg (Black cable is Telecom's, cable coming up from floor, is Sky's job, and the other cable is star wiring to the rest of the house.)

My gut feeling is, trying to place 2x Cat5e runs + a proper filter (such as the Dynamix one) in there would be pretty close to impossible (esp with my large fingers ;)). As you can see it's also much closer than the 300mm that I've been told phone wiring should be kept away from mains wiring as well.

keewee01: You missed the point I was trying to make. Because the "independent technician" sent out by Chorus needs to be paid one way or the other. If they can't do it (for what ever reason - sorry, not in a position to be able to comment on that) they still need to be paid by Chorus/Telecom for their time. That's why you will be charged whether they can do it or not. That's the risk and why it costs.

Sorry yeah, I understand that they are now private contractors (seem to recall that was ~98 or sometime around then), and you do have a point, I won't ignore it, but not knowing ever so slightly what criteria they use to judge if something can be done (i.e. to see if what the chances of it been a complete waste of money), or even what sort of costs beyond the $70, to me is a bit smoke and mirrors. (For instance I saw something like $17/15min for fault diagnostics, on the connection & wiring service page, but the person I spoke to yesterday, couldn't/wouldn't even tell me, what labour rates they charge).

Oh, I agree - would be gutted if they turned up at my place and said, "Nope - can't do it", and then charged me for the pleasure.

DonGould

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#547013 18-Nov-2011 17:32

Ok this is silly.

Get a camera out, take two dozen photos of the job, post them on line and a bunch of us will just tell you want can be done then all you have to do is ring up and order the job, not a quote.

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

mattwnz

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#547015 18-Nov-2011 17:36

Just be thankful that you don't live in a rural area, and trying to get a fixed line connection, and you are on the state highway where a line is already outside the property, but it is still considered rural.

DonGould

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#547018 18-Nov-2011 17:40

mattwnz: Just be thankful that you don't live in a rural area, and trying to get a fixed line connection, and you are on the state highway where a line is already outside the property, but it is still considered rural.

That's when you just ring a wireless provider.

I arranged to get a 4/4 mbit feed dropped on a site for 24 hours today for free.

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

nigelj

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#547039 18-Nov-2011 18:49

nigelj: Actually, I decided to read PTC 103 (http://www.telepermit.co.nz/Ptc103.pdf) and noticed this:

"1.2.1 (2): Where no ETP is fitted, the demarcation point is the point at which the cable enters the outer wall of the individual home or premises."

So does that mean that Telecom can't actually stop us cutting the black wire where we want? (Should I ring them to clarify?).

Replying to myself, after getting passed around various departments (for some reason including Broadband Support(???)) I spoke to a wonderful CSR from New & Moves who understood the question and confirmed (after checking with her Team Lead) that the whole $70 call-out is wrong and I can DIY it (because the Demarcation point is actually where it enters the house, not the first jackpoint).

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