Why does Vodafone NZ still not support carrier time / NITZ?

Forums › One New Zealand (including Vodafone, WxC, Farmside) › Why does Vodafone NZ still not support carrier time / NITZ?

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Networkn
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#618981 3-May-2012 17:30

/me laughs...

That's it, I am changing to Telecom, I hear their marine life mobile coverage is available in 97% of the places NZ'rs work and play.

I'll be back when VFNZ provides 4G coverage of Crayfish. I can't live without the ability to surf the internet on my freshly caught crayfish!

Ragnor

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#618991 3-May-2012 17:43

sbiddle:
Ragnor: As per title I am curious why Vodafone NZ still not do not support carrier time / NITZ?

It seems the majority of carriers around the world support it now:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NITZ

ClockSync on my Android on Vodafone is good workaround but it would be nice if it wasn't needed
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.org.amip.ClockSync&hl=en
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.org.amip.timezoneservice

NITZ is still deployed by a small % of carriers globally and is still the exception rather than the norm.

I don't know VF's official reasons for not having it but I would take a stab and say the licencing costs for such a feature will be big (like most NSN licencing charges) and in a country with a single timezone it's argueably far less useful than countries with multiple timezones.

26 supporting vs 6 not listed in the wikipedia article I linked, how many carriers are missing from that list?

grant_k

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#619020 3-May-2012 19:04

I've always thought it is very disappointing that Vodafone don't see fit to support NITZ. If a much smaller player like 2D can support it, and Telecom also, why not Vodafone?

I have an old 2G phone which does the job for me just fine. It communicates via Bluetooth quite happily, and does everything else I need, except it doesn't keep accurate time unless I go to a city with 2D coverage, which is not that often. So it spends most of its time roaming on Vodafone's network, and hence the clock is not as accurate as I would like.

I know it's an extra licencing cost Vodafone would have to pay but FFS, I think they could afford it!

johnr

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#619021 3-May-2012 19:18

NITZ Licence is paid for and not the issue

Batwing

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#619031 3-May-2012 19:48

Gave my old xperia mini pro to the girlfriend, had network time for me on 2degrees but not for her on Vodafone. Are they implemented differently?

johnr

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#619032 3-May-2012 19:50

Batwing: Gave my old xperia mini pro to the girlfriend, had network time for me on 2degrees but not for her on Vodafone. Are they implemented differently?

It's covered in the thread that it is not implemented on Vodafone

Batwing

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#619040 3-May-2012 20:18

So the two that mentioned they had something working was an os sync with time server not network, noted.

If licence payment is a non issue, is the issue choice not to implement?

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#619065 3-May-2012 21:14

Ragnor:
sbiddle:
Ragnor: As per title I am curious why Vodafone NZ still not do not support carrier time / NITZ?

It seems the majority of carriers around the world support it now:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NITZ

ClockSync on my Android on Vodafone is good workaround but it would be nice if it wasn't needed
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.org.amip.ClockSync&hl=en
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.org.amip.timezoneservice

NITZ is still deployed by a small % of carriers globally and is still the exception rather than the norm.

I don't know VF's official reasons for not having it but I would take a stab and say the licencing costs for such a feature will be big (like most NSN licencing charges) and in a country with a single timezone it's argueably far less useful than countries with multiple timezones.

26 supporting vs 6 not listed in the wikipedia article I linked, how many carriers are missing from that list?

Around another 200 or so major networks globally

ajobbins

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#619119 3-May-2012 23:03

johnr: We don't provide mobile coverage for crayfish either

I can't believe you kicked me out of your network just because I locked lips with my crayfish. We weren't even drunk!

This is discrimination and I will be making a complaint to the human rights commission!

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alexx

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#619124 3-May-2012 23:27

Why do we need this?

My phone knows the time and never seems to need adjusting. Within a minute is close enough for me and the specification for NITZ (from etsi.org) states:

NOTE: Universal time indicates the time at which this information element (see 3GPP TS 24.008 [2]) may have
been sent by the network. Thus it can be assumed that the accuracy of the time information when it
arrives at the MS is usually within a couple minutes.

That doesn't seem like an improvement to me.

Perhaps NITZ might be useful for international travellers who don't want to change the timezone when they land in a new country, but on my Nokia N8 (Symbian) I can do that manually in a few seconds.

if I fly to Singapore (for example)...

Menu -> Settings -> Phone -> Time and Date
In the Timezone field select Singapore.

Now it knows the time is 19:25 instead of 23:25.
Perhaps other phones do it with more or less steps than Symbian... but in any case not too hard for those few times I need it.

But you can bet that if Vodafone implemented NITZ and the time displayed in peoples phones was more than 1-2 minutes off, they'd get a bunch of calls from people complaining (not to mention a thread in geekzone).

Edit: spelling

#include <standard.disclaimer>

grant_k

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#619132 3-May-2012 23:46

alexx: Why do we need this?

My phone knows the time and never seems to need adjusting. Within a minute is close enough for me and the specification for NITZ (from etsi.org) states:

NOTE: Universal time indicates the time at which this information element (see 3GPP TS 24.008 [2]) may have
been sent by the network. Thus it can be assumed that the accuracy of the time information when it
arrives at the MS is usually within a couple minutes.

That doesn't seem like an improvement to me.

The thing is that all cellphones calculate their time based on a crystal oscillator. None of these devices are perfect, and they all run a little fast or slow compared to UTC. How much fast or slow will also vary depending on the ambient temperature. It's the same reason that the clock in your car is never exactly right to the second when the time pips are broadcast on the radio.

If you have a phone with access to the internet ... pfffft, you don't need NITZ because your phone can get the time by an alternate means.

But if your phone is antiquated like mine and 100s of thousands of others around NZ, it calculates its time using the crystal oscillator as reference.

NITZ is the perfect solution, and my observations are that it is accurate to within a few seconds when running on 2D or Telecom. If it's good enough for them to offer this service to their customers around NZ, I don't see why Vodafone can't be bothered to implement it.

johnr

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#619137 3-May-2012 23:57

Grant it's not realted to " can't be bothered " as you put it, The feature was enabled for a short time frame a little while back but then had to be disabled due to a reason I can't say sorry

As advised above Vodafone NZ have paid for the feaure and would like it enabled

grant_k

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#619143 4-May-2012 00:26

johnr: Grant it's not realted to " can't be bothered " as you put it, The feature was enabled for a short time frame a little while back but then had to be disabled due to a reason I can't say sorry

As advised above Vodafone NZ have paid for the feaure and would like it enabled

Many Thanks for your clarification John.

Last time this subject was discussed a year or more ago, it seemed as though Vodafone had no plan to provide NITZ. Now you have explained the current position, which sounds a lot more encouraging. No doubt it will be sorted before too long, and then we can all quit moaning

oxnsox

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#619349 4-May-2012 10:26

NITZ is the perfect solution, and my observations are that it is accurate to within a few seconds when running on 2D or Telecom. If it's good enough for them to offer this service to their customers around NZ, I don't see why Vodafone can't be bothered to implement it.

I'd have thought any network would simply reference a GPS clock. Most accurate for price, and often co-located at sites it seems.

cisconz

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#619351 4-May-2012 10:28

oxnsox:
I'd have thought any network would simply reference a GPS clock. Most accurate for price, and often co-located at sites it seems.

GPS is used for handover timing between sites.

Hmmmm

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