NEAX migration to Baseband IP?

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nztim

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#2745391 16-Jul-2021 20:26

toejam316:

I believe the PCM hardware is Chorus' equipment, including the bearers and cards on either end. General rule of thumb I run with is the MDF and beyond belongs to Chorus, and EN and back belongs to Spark.

100% correct

Also it could be another RSPs equipment at the end of a baseband copper line - not necessarily a NEAX

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nztim

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#2745393 16-Jul-2021 20:32

Greepzone:

@tim0001 The team has had a look, this switch is on the roadmap for POTS closure, so it's the PSTN switch closure rather than the NEAX-IMS migration. You can roll VoIP over DSL, or yes BBIP (much of a muchness) could be an option with some providers.

VOIP over DSL only really works well on VDSL, as you can prioritise the voice traffic with tagging, on an ADSL which I believe the OP has it possible that the VOIP could be affected by upload saturation

Also if your xDSL is not a 100% clean line and you get regular disconnects as the OP does this will also impact voice

On Fibre this is not an issue as again you can tag priority

The other advantage of BBIP is you are not impacted by Power Cuts (at least as long as the cabinet battery runs)

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hio77

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#2745398 16-Jul-2021 20:50

nztim:

toejam316:

I believe the PCM hardware is Chorus' equipment, including the bearers and cards on either end. General rule of thumb I run with is the MDF and beyond belongs to Chorus, and EN and back belongs to Spark.

100% correct

Also it could be another RSPs equipment at the end of a baseband copper line - not necessarily a NEAX

It's almost like it's his job to know ;)

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tim0001

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#2745694 17-Jul-2021 12:13

I’ll throw in my 2 cents...

It would be good if RSPs did their own “prequal” before offering VoIP over DSL (without solid QoS). There’s been a number of local people that have had a very poor experience after being offered VoIP over DSL (from a mixture of RSPs).

In my opinion, anyone on an ISAM with non-fibre backhaul should not be offered VoIP over DSL. Also, as @nztim points out, ADSL in general is not a good candidate for VoIP over DSL. The DSL experts could probably add some other parameters too.

Here’s a graph showing packet loss on my connection. Note that SamsKnows attempts to avoid "cross-traffic", so when we are using the internet the packet loss is actually higher.

I’m a couple of hundred metres from the cabinet and my router says its synced at 14574kbps. The ISAM has non-fibre backhaul.

I don’t see VoIP over DSL working out too well. (However I’m happy to trial it if VF give me an additional “landline” just for testing.)

Greepzone

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#2746481 19-Jul-2021 10:57

nztim:

Greepzone:

@tim0001 The team has had a look, this switch is on the roadmap for POTS closure, so it's the PSTN switch closure rather than the NEAX-IMS migration. You can roll VoIP over DSL, or yes BBIP (much of a muchness) could be an option with some providers.

VOIP over DSL only really works well on VDSL, as you can prioritise the voice traffic with tagging, on an ADSL which I believe the OP has it possible that the VOIP could be affected by upload saturation

Also if your xDSL is not a 100% clean line and you get regular disconnects as the OP does this will also impact voice

On Fibre this is not an issue as again you can tag priority

The other advantage of BBIP is you are not impacted by Power Cuts (at least as long as the cabinet battery runs)

Agree, (note - no Fibre). Have outlined in PM that we prioritise voice packets out of our network for DSL voice but beyond that the tagging is stripped and a packet is a packet is a packet. Then you shift up to QoS offerings which wouldn't work here.

Also wondering the potential to shift to a neighboring exchange... looking into it for viability so all the options are on the table.

Greepzone

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#2746488 19-Jul-2021 11:11

tim0001:

I don’t see VoIP over DSL working out too well. (However I’m happy to trial it if VF give me an additional “landline” just for testing.)

Absolutely keen for you to do what's right for your service - regardless of carrier. Have you tried BBIP? This might be the go for your situation without Fibre, FWA or VDSL to support you. Your Sure Signal will still work with another providers Broadband.

tim0001

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#2749071 24-Jul-2021 11:01

Unfortunately BBIP is not available. Are there any other options?

We had a follow up call from VF saying that they would be unable to provide us any telephone voice service in "a few months".

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hio77

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#2749083 24-Jul-2021 11:18

tim0001:
Unfortunately BBIP is not available. Are there any other options?

We had a follow up call from VF saying that they would be unable to provide us any telephone voice service in "a few months".

It's been awhile since I've been in the xposure but I understood that an adsl serviced area required cards to be installed before the neax is actually able to turned off.

I can't do it for you due to FUG, however a provider badged person should be able to jump into wireline and get a non-bias response.

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yitz

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#2755195 4-Aug-2021 16:59

Looks like the Comcom are now seeking feedback regarding topics like this:

https://comcom.govt.nz/news-and-media/media-releases/2021/commission-urges-telcos-to-better-inform-consumers-about-technology-options

Are the regulators aware of the situation with Baseband IP and other access types? Perhaps they can look into making it part of the standard UBA package in some areas as to give the RSPs some certainty.

nztim

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#2755262 4-Aug-2021 20:13

yitz:

Looks like the Comcom are now seeking feedback regarding topics like this:

https://comcom.govt.nz/news-and-media/media-releases/2021/commission-urges-telcos-to-better-inform-consumers-about-technology-options

Are the regulators aware of the situation with Baseband IP and other access types? Perhaps they can look into making it part of the standard UBA package in some areas as to give the RSPs some certainty.

The problem is that NEAX shutdowns are happening at a faster rate than copper withdrawal is.

Can you can imagine Vodafone or Spark migrating from NEAX to Baseband IP only to be told a year or so later by Chorus oh we are now going to pull copper in that area.

I do however believe that copper based voice should still be Available after the NEAX has gone in areas where there is no fibre (aka ISAM-V cards and RSPs been compelled to support it)

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

tim0001

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#2755319 4-Aug-2021 23:02

Thanks @yits. There are few points in the ComCom letter that are interesting in my case:

"RSPs should not give PSTN withdrawal as a reason for moving unless they can point to a formal notification from Spark relating to that consumer’s premises."
"RSPs should be open with consumers about any commercial decisions they make to cease supplying copper services ahead of formal copper withdrawal by Chorus or PSTN withdrawal by Spark"
"RSPs should set appropriate expectations about what their alternative telecommunications services are likely to deliver for consumers." {I don't believe VoIP over DSL will work reliably if my neighbours are using the internet}

sbiddle

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#2755394 5-Aug-2021 07:40

yitz:

Looks like the Comcom are now seeking feedback regarding topics like this:

https://comcom.govt.nz/news-and-media/media-releases/2021/commission-urges-telcos-to-better-inform-consumers-about-technology-options

Are the regulators aware of the situation with Baseband IP and other access types? Perhaps they can look into making it part of the standard UBA package in some areas as to give the RSPs some certainty.

I can only conclude based off that letter and comments I've seen from the ComCom over the past year that their understanding of what is actually happening in the telco space regarding the PSTN shutdown is not very good.

Having said that there are plenty of people affected by these changes (security and lift companies being two such examples) that don't seem to be fully aware of or prepared for these changes either despite the fact they've only had about 15 years notice...

The simple reality is nobody in the country regardless of their location (and big CBD's will be the last to lose service) should be planning to still have a copper NEAX based landline operating beyond the middle of 2022. They won't be gone everywhere at this point, but 2022 will see some pretty large scale shutdowns occuring as this project ramps up and by the end of the next year there won't be many lines left in the country.

nztim

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#2756486 7-Aug-2021 12:40

sbiddle:
yitz:

Looks like the Comcom are now seeking feedback regarding topics like this:

https://comcom.govt.nz/news-and-media/media-releases/2021/commission-urges-telcos-to-better-inform-consumers-about-technology-options

Are the regulators aware of the situation with Baseband IP and other access types? Perhaps they can look into making it part of the standard UBA package in some areas as to give the RSPs some certainty.

I can only conclude based off that letter and comments I've seen from the ComCom over the past year that their understanding of what is actually happening in the telco space regarding the PSTN shutdown is not very good.

Having said that there are plenty of people affected by these changes (security and lift companies being two such examples) that don't seem to be fully aware of or prepared for these changes either despite the fact they've only had about 15 years notice...

The simple reality is nobody in the country regardless of their location (and big CBD's will be the last to lose service) should be planning to still have a copper NEAX based landline operating beyond the middle of 2022. They won't be gone everywhere at this point, but 2022 will see some pretty large scale shutdowns occuring as this project ramps up and by the end of the next year there won't be many lines left in the country.

Some big exchanges slated to be shutdown this year, notably Manukau City and Paraparaumu

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

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