cable modems

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hamish225

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#127344 7-Aug-2013 12:22

whenever im at a friends house that has cable i always notice that Vodafone (TelstraClear) have been using the same black modems for at least 10 years. They dont have wifi built in or more than one Ethernet port (and they're really ugly) apparently in america they're light years ahead of us and you can use your own cable modem on your connection rather than an ISP supplied one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK-6EYwuKp8

is there anything stopping someone buying one of these and using it on their cable connection in NZ?

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ZollyMonsta

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#873142 7-Aug-2013 12:24

Yes there is. It won't work.

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NikT

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#873147 7-Aug-2013 12:32

Our cable equipment is all specifically part of the inventory & is provisioned to each customer's account, so as Grant says, plugging an unsupported cable modem into the network won't work (And could potentially cause problems for other customers). Newer Cisco modems are supplied for 100Mbps WarpSpeed connections as the Motorola SurfBoards don't support the DOCSIS 3.0 tech needed for the faster speeds, so you'll see less SurfBoards around in the future. :)

Always thought the SurfBoards were rather fetching in a sturdy black box kind of way with their orange & green lights, but then I'm a fan of Motorola's industrial design.

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Kiwi1971

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#873148 7-Aug-2013 12:32

When I had Telstra, I just got a wireless 4 port router and hooked it up, giving three spare ports and a wireless N connection for the house.

DonGould

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#873150 7-Aug-2013 12:38

onslaught86: Our cable equipment is all specifically part of the inventory & is provisioned to each customer's account, so as Grant says, plugging an unsupported cable modem into the network won't work (And could potentially cause problems for other customers). Newer Cisco modems are supplied for 100Mbps WarpSpeed connections as the Motorola SurfBoards don't support the DOCSIS 3.0 tech needed for the faster speeds, so you'll see less SurfBoards around in the future. :)

Always thought the SurfBoards were rather fetching in a sturdy black box kind of way with their orange & green lights, but then I'm a fan of Motorola's industrial design.

Cheers,

- Nik

ya, what those guys said and more...

Many cable customers simply don't need the feature set in a consumer router and just wanted the basic connection delivered for them to do as we please.

For my part I run into a router then off to a unifi network of wifi aps because a single AP just wouldn't touch the sides.

Wireless performance in my home/office is great and we have a dozen wifi devices running at any given time.

But the reverse is also valid, what about the person who only has a single desktop? Why impose the cost of a wireless solution on them for something they don't need or want?

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NikT

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#873159 7-Aug-2013 12:54

DonGould:
ya, what those guys said and more...

Many cable customers simply don't need the feature set in a consumer router and just wanted the basic connection delivered for them to do as we please.

For my part I run into a router then off to a unifi network of wifi aps because a single AP just wouldn't touch the sides.

Wireless performance in my home/office is great and we have a dozen wifi devices running at any given time.

But the reverse is also valid, what about the person who only has a single desktop? Why impose the cost of a wireless solution on them for something they don't need or want?

Was thinking of your thoughts on stimulating purchases of home networking equipment - I wouldn't be without my 5Ghz WiFi, but I hardly expect the average home user to have the same needs. Without being tethered to network-certified wireless equipment, they're free to get the best piece of hardware for their needs, whatever those may be, and upgrade as those needs change - which I'm sure has made many a sales rep at electronics retailers happy. ;)

Thinking of all those folks still using ADSL1 modems on ADSL2+ connections, too - older cable modems are actively swapped out when technicians are on-site for unrelated reasons (e.g. to install cable TV).

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hamish225

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#873189 7-Aug-2013 13:47

onslaught86: Our cable equipment is all specifically part of the inventory & is provisioned to each customer's account, so as Grant says, plugging an unsupported cable modem into the network won't work (And could potentially cause problems for other customers).

i see where you're coming from there. I wonder why on US networks you're allowed to plug in your own then, do they have a different type of network that means it wont affect other customers or do they just not care about that?

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NikT

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#873238 7-Aug-2013 14:46

hamish225: i see where you're coming from there. I wonder why on US networks you're allowed to plug in your own then, do they have a different type of network that means it wont affect other customers or do they just not care about that?

Without having visibility into their networks & provisioning processes it's difficult to say, but I'd wager it's a side effect of how entrenched cable technologies are in the US. They've had cable TV since the year dot, it's a real institution, & using those networks for high speed internet was a reasonably natural progression - lots of interoperability to leverage on the hardware side.

I do understand that, if they do allow end users to bring their own modems, most cable network operators have a list of approved devices such as this one or this one. Customers would likely need to provide their ISPs with the serial numbers of the equipment to allow it to be provisioned, at the very least.

Here in NZ, we've only got the one cable network, so from a ground level perspective there's not a lot of sense in users spending a lot on their own cable modem if they can only ever use it with one provider. There's also the support factor, as it's much easier to troubleshoot when tech support knows exactly which equipment the end user has & have all the appropriate training & documentation at hand for that equipment. It's a combination of small market sensibilities and customer support, plus the costs of provisioning & implementing this sort of thing wouldn't be minor. Hope that helps.

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DonGould

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#875620 12-Aug-2013 09:39

onslaught86: There's also the support factor, as it's much easier to troubleshoot when tech support knows exactly which equipment the end user has & have all the appropriate training & documentation at hand for that equipment. It's a combination of small market sensibilities and customer support, plus the costs of provisioning & implementing this sort of thing wouldn't be minor. Hope that helps.

Nik with all due respect that argument is rubbish.

The argument has been presented many times in this region and gets more and more annoying every time I read it.

The comments do have some validity for the reasons you're highlighting, but the flip side is that manufactures don't have to follow standards, they don't have to make their systems robust and there's no competition to provide better equipment to attract users to make purchases.

We had exactly the same arguments in the DSL space in Australia. Some people predicted that the sky would fall and prices would go up if we had something other than Alcatel Speedtouch modems. They were wrong. Costs came down, profits went up and consumers choice increased.

From a support point of view, I agree with aspects of your comments. But at the same time you just tell the customer "you choose that bit of kit, it doesn't work, you pay or you replace it with one of ours." That drives manufactures to ensure that their kit is robust fast enough.

Having said this, I do have to acknowledge that one ISP is upgrading firmware on a heap of DSL modems it provided because of a security flaw. I also have to acknowledge comments SB has made in the past about a cable network not having as much consumer isolation as DSL and as such random equipment can have more impact, though this really is what a telepermit is for.

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Zeon

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#875625 12-Aug-2013 09:45

Does it really matter what the modem is? You should be using a router plugged into it anyway.....

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DonGould

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#875632 12-Aug-2013 09:51

onslaught86: I wouldn't be without my 5Ghz WiFi, but I hardly expect the average home user to have the same needs.

Your comments about ADSL1 modems are right on the mark and in my view Chorus should be approaching every one of those customers via their RSP and fixing that issue right NOW.

I build web sites. I host web sites. This impacts my business and yours.

Good Wifi is critical today. I have 3 2.4 gig radios in my house. It helps to stop my devices running flat so quickly.

With a 130mbit feed, I need my wifi to be giving favour to though put not power.

When the radio power goes up the transmission speed comes down.

I want the best user experience I can get.

My wife spent $1000 dollars on a fridge. She spent $1000 on a washing machine and dryer.

We have $2000 dollars of TVs in your house (like most these days), yet we use the internet way more than we spend watching TV these days (well actually we do both at the same time, but the TV really is more of a noise now while we surf).

But yet most homes spend nothing on Wifi at all and just live with the $50 wifi AP their ISP gave them....

Let's add this up... $50/$4000 - someone smarter than me want to do the math and let me know what most folk are budgeting for a great user experience?

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Lias

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#875715 12-Aug-2013 11:17

I asked this somewhere else, but I'll ask it again cos this thread is more relevant and I see various Vodafone people posting here.

Is there any official Vodafone support for using routers on cable connections now, and do Vodafone offer a router package with cable connections yet? When I first got my cable on it was very much "We don't support routers, we will configure one PC to use the cable modem" and you were left on your own for anything beyond that.

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matisyahu

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#876012 12-Aug-2013 17:45

Lias: I asked this somewhere else, but I'll ask it again cos this thread is more relevant and I see various Vodafone people posting here.

Is there any official Vodafone support for using routers on cable connections now, and do Vodafone offer a router package with cable connections yet? When I first got my cable on it was very much "We don't support routers, we will configure one PC to use the cable modem" and you were left on your own for anything beyond that.

I was recently connected up and was provided with a NetComm wireless router but I've since sold it in favour of having a Airport Extreme 802.11ac router - I really need in a decent 5Ghz router in a sea of 2.4Ghz routers broadcasting within air shot of where I live.

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NikT

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#876501 13-Aug-2013 14:31

DonGould:
Nik with all due respect that argument is rubbish.

The argument has been presented many times in this region and gets more and more annoying every time I read it.

The comments do have some validity for the reasons you're highlighting, but the flip side is that manufactures don't have to follow standards, they don't have to make their systems robust and there's no competition to provide better equipment to attract users to make purchases.

We had exactly the same arguments in the DSL space in Australia. Some people predicted that the sky would fall and prices would go up if we had something other than Alcatel Speedtouch modems. They were wrong. Costs came down, profits went up and consumers choice increased.

From a support point of view, I agree with aspects of your comments. But at the same time you just tell the customer "you choose that bit of kit, it doesn't work, you pay or you replace it with one of ours." That drives manufactures to ensure that their kit is robust fast enough.

Having said this, I do have to acknowledge that one ISP is upgrading firmware on a heap of DSL modems it provided because of a security flaw. I also have to acknowledge comments SB has made in the past about a cable network not having as much consumer isolation as DSL and as such random equipment can have more impact, though this really is what a telepermit is for.

Point taken, and I will admit to feeling a shadow of the old AT&T party line (heh) about unapproved telephones causing long-term damage to the consumer pass over me. In a wider context of open networks, I certainly agree. Have to come back to there only being the one (Largely closed) cable network here, though. The cost of implementing processes to provision, let alone support customer-supplied cable modems at this point in the UFB-conscious market vs. the number of users that would practically benefit from such work seems a straightforward equation when the existing modems play nicely with a wide range of CPE. :)

Lias: I asked this somewhere else, but I'll ask it again cos
this thread is more relevant and I see various Vodafone people posting
here. Is there any official Vodafone support for using routers
on cable connections now, and do Vodafone offer a router package with
cable connections yet? When I first got my cable on it was very much "We
don't support routers, we will configure one PC to use the cable modem"
and you were left on your own for anything beyond that.

As Kawaii mentioned, Netcomm wireless routers can be supplied upon request (as part of a contract or service bundle) at point of sale. These are set up by the technician installing the cable services.

I know the Customer Help team does assist customers when and where they can, but I believe home networking with cable is still officially unsupported. As you'll likely know well by now, configuring a router to work with cable is a pretty straightforward exercise with the static IP/default gateway/subnet mask/DNS servers (My favourite pro-tip when accidentally erasing IP details following a router firmware update or similar is to yank it from Gmail's list of recent IPs the account has been accessed from). That said, if you or anyone else needs a hand, I'm happy to help out as much as I can.

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