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Topic # 17977 20-Dec-2007 14:27
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I just spotted an announcement that myself and several others have been waiting some time for...

In a decision released today, the Commission has clarified the Local and Cellular Telephone Number Portability Determination issued 31 August 2005, to confirm that pre-paid mobile services are covered under the terms of the original Determination.

Number portability was launched on 1 April 2007 and allows a customer to switch telecommunications service providers and retain their telephone number. The Commission became aware that Telecom pre-pay customers were unable to switch to Vodafone pre-pay while retaining their original telephone number.

Telecommunications Commissioner Dr Ross Patterson said "This Clarification ensures that all customers, no matter what mobile service they subscribe to, should be able to switch providers and retain the same telephone number. All parties to the Determination are now clear that they need to implement the technology to provide equivalent services and features to customers switching providers."

Parties to the Determination will have until 1 April 2008 to implement technology changes to comply with the Clarification.

Finally, this means I can switch to Vodafone Prepay while still keeping my current On Account number.  YES! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing 

Not before time, but better late than never I suppose Cool

P.S.  Thanks to mods unknown for changing the title of this thread to make it more descriptive Smile


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  Reply # 101059 20-Dec-2007 15:53
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Parties to the Determination will have until 1 April 2008 to implement technology changes to comply with the Clarification.


Ah yes....  And number portability allowing numbers into the Prepay and On Account systems requires such complex technology, that it has taken forever for this change to be brought about, and for the Commerce Commission to allow 4 months before Vodafone is in breach of the deadline.


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  Reply # 101073 20-Dec-2007 16:45

I think you'll find this is in line with expectations...

the original TCF draft of number portability says:

The Industry Portability Management System went live as scheduled on 1 April 2007, bringing local and mobile number portability (LMNP) to customers by enabling them to retain their existing local or mobile phone number when they switch telecommunications providers.

which we've been able to do since April 1. Let customers port OUT. That's the requirement.

As of April 1 next year we'll be letting prepay customers port IN. That's different, wasn't what was required last year and is something we'll be doing as of April next year.

Hope that helps with your understanding.

Cheers

Paul




Paul Brislen
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Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 101075 20-Dec-2007 17:01
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PaulBrislen: I think you'll find this is in line with expectations...

the original TCF draft of number portability says:

The Industry Portability Management System went live as scheduled on 1 April 2007, bringing local and mobile number portability (LMNP) to customers by enabling them to retain their existing local or mobile phone number when they switch telecommunications providers.

which we've been able to do since April 1. Let customers port OUT. That's the requirement.

As of April 1 next year we'll be letting prepay customers port IN. That's different, wasn't what was required last year and is something we'll be doing as of April next year.


How is not being able to keep your mobile number when moving to Vodafone "enabling them to retain their existing local or mobile phone number when they switch telecommunications providers." ???

Sounds like your pulling a Telecom to me, having found a loophole in the newly drafted law which you managed to  screw the little 
guys with so they had to switch to the more expensive post pay plans, now the government has caught you out, clarified the law,
 and made Vodafone actually adhere to the spirit and letter of the law.

Hey - when are you going to fix your billing system BTW?




Tyler - Parnell Geek - iPhone 3G - Lenovo X301 - Kaseya - Great Western Steak House, these are some of my favourite things.

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  Reply # 101077 20-Dec-2007 17:11

  How is not being able to keep your mobile number when moving to Vodafone "enabling them to retain their existing local or mobile phone number when they switch telecommunications providers." ???

Sounds like your pulling a Telecom to me, having found a loophole in the newly drafted law which you managed to screw the little
guys with so they had to switch to the more expensive post pay plans, now the government has caught you out, clarified the law,
and made Vodafone actually adhere to the spirit and letter of the law.


What I'm saying is there are two levels of expectation here: what the ComCom asked for (port numbers OUT) and what you're expecting, (port numbers any which way). We have MET and will continue to meet the ComCom requirements.

As of April 1 next year we will be required to port Prepay numbers in and we will meet that.

Cheers

Paul




Paul Brislen
Head of Corporate Communications
Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz


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Reply # 101079 20-Dec-2007 17:16
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PaulBrislen: I think you'll find this is in line with expectations...

the original TCF draft of number portability says:

The Industry Portability Management System went live as scheduled on 1 April 2007, bringing local and mobile number portability (LMNP) to customers by enabling them to retain their existing local or mobile phone number when they switch telecommunications providers.

which we've been able to do since April 1. Let customers port OUT. That's the requirement.

As of April 1 next year we'll be letting prepay customers port IN. That's different, wasn't what was required last year and is something we'll be doing as of April next year.

Hope that helps with your understanding.

Cheers

Paul


This is Orwellian nonsense, and I haven’t seen anything this contemptuous from a Telecommunications company since Teresa’s confusion comments.

The purpose of portability is to allow customers to switch carriers. That’s the beginning and end of it. And if porting in wasn’t covered, why was it offered when Telecom customers were coming to Vodafone On Account?

Every customer I know who cares about portability has known that Vodafone has been in breach. Now the Commerce Commission has confirmed it. How about just accepting it humbly?

This is a victory for ordinary New Zealanders who just want Telecommunications freedom. Let Vodafone now focus on competing in terms of quality and price, stop being anti-competitive, and above all, not bring itself into further disrepute with this crazy spin.




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  Reply # 101081 20-Dec-2007 17:21
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Fantastic news. I'll be able to port my multitude of Telecom numbers over to Vodafone Prepay now! :)

Even still, I agree with Paul. The original determination was that carriers must allow their numbers to be ported FROM their network, to other networks. There was no requirement for carriers to port numbers IN from other networks.

I've not yet read the determination, but I suspect this will surely mean that we should now be able to port 021, 027, and 029 numbers over to 2Talk as well as part of their non-geographical service (currently under the 028 prefix). If Vodafone has to forcibly comply with PORT IN requests, surely other telcos will too.

This should be interesting - maybe we'll begin to see 021/027/029 popping up on SIP connections around the country :)



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Reply # 101084 20-Dec-2007 17:22
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jmosen: This is Orwellian nonsense, and I haven’t seen anything this contemptuous from a Telecommunications company since Teresa’s confusion comments.

Well said Jonathan!  I couldn't agree more Laughing

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  Reply # 101086 20-Dec-2007 17:25
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PaulBrislen: I think you'll find this is in line with expectations...

the original TCF draft of number portability says:

The Industry Portability Management System went live as scheduled on 1 April 2007, bringing local and mobile number portability (LMNP) to customers by enabling them to retain their existing local or mobile phone number when they switch telecommunications providers.

which we've been able to do since April 1. Let customers port OUT. That's the requirement.

As of April 1 next year we'll be letting prepay customers port IN. That's different, wasn't what was required last year and is something we'll be doing as of April next year.

Hope that helps with your understanding.

Cheers

Paul


Thanks for clarifying that Paul!!

To everyone else, as far as meeting requirement goes, Vodafone has just done that. Unfortunately some people came to think that the final agreement was for porting 'within' Telco's. This was not the case, the whole idea was to allow consumers to jump ship and keep their phone numbers.

The fact that Telecom allowed this, and Vodafone did not was Vodafones choice. From an outside, and marketing point of view it may have been a bad one, as it has made Vodafone look like the bad guys.

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  Reply # 101089 20-Dec-2007 17:36
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This latest clarification actually still doesn't REQUIRE port-in requests - it just says that if Vodafone's going to have ported numbers in it's network, they've got to have the same services as non-ported numbers on it's network (which includes prepay services).

I don't know why the ComCom don't just order all telcos to accept both PORT-IN and PORT-OUT requests - if a person is able to get phone service from a company, they should be able to tell that company they're bringing their existing number with them.

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Reply # 101093 20-Dec-2007 18:06
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willnz:
Even still, I agree with Paul. The original determination was that carriers must allow their numbers to be ported FROM their network, to other networks. There was no requirement for carriers to port numbers IN from other networks.


If every carrier followed this practice, number portability would be completely broken.

To make this example completely theoretical, let’s say there is carrier A, my present carrier, and Carrier B, the one I want to switch to. In this universe, everyone is interpreting the portability provisions the way Vodafone has been up to the present.

I decide Carrier B has features and pricing that suit my usage better. Carrier A gladly lets me take my phone number, but in this universe, I have nowhere to take it too, since Carrier B is not required to port in, only out.

In other words, do what Vodafone have been doing, and you utterly cripple portability. Craziness!




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  Reply # 101094 20-Dec-2007 18:42
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IMHO that seems a bit of media spin on the Vodafone response Paul. Why not just admit that Vodafone's systems simply wasn't ready for portability?

I refuse to believe that any telco out there would porposely only enable porting out of their numbers and isn't interested in porting in. The majority of mobile customers in NZ are on prepay, are in effect all you've been saying for the past year is that you're not interested in their business.. You're not even interested in keeping your own prepay customers who have been abandoning Vodafone in droves to sign up with Telecom on account since they couldn't keep their number of account with VF.


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  Reply # 101102 20-Dec-2007 20:00

sbiddle:

IMHO that seems a bit of media spin on the Vodafone response Paul. Why not just admit that Vodafone's systems simply wasn't ready for portability?

I refuse to believe that any telco out there would porposely only enable porting out of their numbers and isn't interested in porting in. The majority of mobile customers in NZ are on prepay, are in effect all you've been saying for the past year is that you're not interested in their business.. You're not even interested in keeping your own prepay customers who have been abandoning Vodafone in droves to sign up with Telecom on account since they couldn't keep their number of account with VF.



But it WAS ready, as I've already said. It was ready for what the Com Com asked us to do - allow customers to keep their numbers when they left.

Now clearly, and I'll be the first to say it, we want customers to COME IN to Vodafone. Of course we do. But that wasn't what the April 1 deadline was all about. It was to allow customers to port out and we met that goal.

Now the goal for next April is to allow customers to port in on prepay and we'll meet that goal.

I'm not sure how many different ways you want me to say it. We met the goal. We're meeting the next goal. We are doing what is asked of us.

Cheers

Paul




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http://forum.vodafone.co.nz


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  Reply # 101104 20-Dec-2007 20:06
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PaulBrislen: But it WAS ready, as I've already said. It was ready for what the Com Com asked us to do - allow customers to keep their numbers when they left.

Now clearly, and I'll be the first to say it, we want customers to COME IN to Vodafone. Of course we do. But that wasn't what the April 1 deadline was all about. It was to allow customers to port out and we met that goal.

Now the goal for next April is to allow customers to port in on prepay and we'll meet that goal.

I'm not sure how many different ways you want me to say it. We met the goal. We're meeting the next goal. We are doing what is asked of us.

Cheers


There are two different things there:

1. Allow Port IN t On Account
2. Allow Port IN to Prepay

Vodafone obviously made Option 1 available, even though according to your words Vodafone only needed to provide Port OUT. So why not Option 2 as well?

This is the problem... Port IN is already there, only not for Prepaid. But the way your statement reads, it seems that ANY Port IN is optional - but no justification why one is done and the other was left out.




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Reply # 101105 20-Dec-2007 20:08
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I wish the ComCom would use 31st March instead. I keep have mental images of Ross Patterson (Telecomm's Commissioner) jumping up and going HA! APRIL FOOLS!

EDIT: Technically MF, any port-in IS optional. Though I'd imagine ComCom would order companies to accept incoming ports if the major players didn't voluntarily comply. Currently, the only regulation in place is to provide customers the ability to port OUT. Porting in is voluntary. You couldn't do it on iTalk for a while, and you still can't on 2Talk. AFAIK, CallPlus-related companies are the only ones not voluntarily porting in numbers (other than VF and their not accepting incoming prepay ports)

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  Reply # 101106 20-Dec-2007 20:11
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I cant understand why would Vodafone be happy to loose prepay customers to telecom until now and not in turn want to take Telecom prepay customers? seems illogical that vodafone would wait until they are TOLD to do it, instead of showing some common business sense and making it happen like Telecom


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