Swapping Vodafone sims in iphone costs $1.24 each time

Forums › One New Zealand (including Vodafone, WxC, Farmside) › Swapping Vodafone sims in iphone costs $1.24 each time

mattwnz

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#205200 2-Nov-2016 16:03

I have two vodafone sims in two different phones, one for business, and one for personal. I swapped the sim out in the weekend in my iphone, and found that when this happens, the iphone sends a 31 cent international txt for authenticating imessage,. So it apparently sends multiple texts for authenticating both imessgae and facetime . When I switched the sims back, the same thing happened. Vodafone are aware of this, but are happy to continue to charge this. Infact it looks like their international txt rate has increased, as I am sure it used to be 20 cents, now it is 31 cents. From what I have read on the vodafone and apple forums, overseas telcos don't charge for this, as they have an agreement with Apple. But that doesn't appear to be the case in NZ. There is no warning of these charges anywhere. Why Apple doesn't have a local number in NZ that it txts, I don't know

This is vodafones explanation for the problem

The $0.31 international TXT was for the silent SMS sent by your iPhone device to register your details to the server located in UK. It occurs when you register to FaceTime or iMessage or if you make changes with your phone set-up. Subsequent resetting of FaceTime settings, or completing a SIM swap, may cause FaceTime to send another registration SMS.

Vodafone are unable to prevent the SMS from being sent due to the default registration number (00447786205094) routing the SMS request to the UK. Further charges will be incurred if multiple registration requests are sent from the iPhone.

Should this be disclosed by the retailer or in the phone documentation, to people buying iphones, as to me this seems to be a hidden fee, and Apple didn't ask my permission to send an international txt message. What can be done to stop being charged. Do other NZ telcos charge this as well?

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#1662809 2-Nov-2016 16:09

Turn off imessage and FaceTime then the international SMS is not sent when swapping SIMs and when you turn on either of these services a warning message does pop up about International SMS charges

Yes all charge as I understand

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mattwnz

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#1662817 2-Nov-2016 16:23

Linux: Turn off imessage and FaceTime then the international SMS is not sent when swapping SIMs and when you turn on either of these services a warning message does pop up about International SMS charges

Yes all charge as I understand

Linux

Thanks, but that isn't a solution, as you need txt on an iphone, and it appears it has to send that before using imessage/txts anyway, no matter whtehr you get a warning or not. I also didn't get any warning popup prior to it sending the texts. If it needs them to both be disabled first, which is fiddly to do and remember anyway, then that isn't a solution. It also is not in the instructions to do this. Probably the better questions are, why are kiwis charged by NZ telcos, when overseas they don't appear to charge. And why are apple sending international txts when they could do it locally. And why have VF put up their international txt pricing, as I suspect they will be making quite bit of money from this. I don't know how many people have iphones in NZ, but potentially it could have netted a large amount of earnings.

Linux

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#1662824 2-Nov-2016 16:29

The FaceTime and imessage servers are located in another country

FaceTime and imessage is a Apple service on I guess if Apple picked up the tab the carriers would zero rate them

Linux

Edit: Yes it will make them $$$ and remember the carriers are a business and have Share holders and staff

mattwnz

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#1662829 2-Nov-2016 16:36

Linux: The FaceTime and imessage servers are located in another country

FaceTime and imessage is a Apple service on I guess if Apple picked up the tab the carriers would zero rate them

Linux

Edit: Yes it will make them $$$ and remember the carriers are a business and have Share holders and staff

Yes, but my point is , is it fair, and should this type of fee be clearly disclosed to consumers. It is essentially a hidden fee, and under the Fair trading act, I believe fees do have to be disclosed to consumers and be reasonable. Considering VF only charge 1 cent for a local txt, but 31 times this for international txts, it does sound very high. Especially as I thought the price of NZ and international txts used to be the same. There also doesn't appear to be anyway not to be charged the fee. Although it is an Apple device, and they are sending the txts out, the retailer of iphones is also Vodafone, who are making the money from these phantom txts that apple sends out without permission.

Benjip

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#1662831 2-Nov-2016 16:40

mattwnz:

Thanks, but that isn't a solution, as you need txt on an iphone, and it appears it has to send that before using imessage/txts anyway, no matter whtehr you get a warning or not. I also didn't get any warning popup prior to it sending the texts. If it needs them to both be disabled first, which is fiddly to do and remember anyway, then that isn't a solution. It also is not in the instructions to do this. Probably the better questions are, why are kiwis charged by NZ telcos, when overseas they don't appear to charge. And why are apple sending international txts when they could do it locally. And why have VF put up their international txt pricing, as I suspect they will be making quite bit of money from this. I don't know how many people have iphones in NZ, but potentially it could have netted a large amount of earnings.

I would say most iPhone users do this a maximum of once per year if/when they upgrade.

Behodar

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#1662835 2-Nov-2016 16:44

mattwnz: phantom txts that apple sends out without permission.

Unfortunately Apple loves to do things without permission. Last week I ended up with 2 GB of 4G data gobbled up after my Mac decided to turn automatic updates back on without asking.

timmmay

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#1662836 2-Nov-2016 16:44

Stop swapping SIMs and the problem goes away.

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Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

sbiddle

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#1662838 2-Nov-2016 16:52

mattwnz:

Yes, but my point is , is it fair, and should this type of fee be clearly disclosed to consumers. It is essentially a hidden fee, and under the Fair trading act, I believe fees do have to be disclosed to consumers and be reasonable.

Lodge a FTA complaint about Apple and see what they say.

zocster

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#1662843 2-Nov-2016 17:02

This is odd, I swap phones on skinny all the time, I move from my windows and iphone, my skinny minutes/balance is still yet to take a hit.

err, more details..

There are two factor authentication and two step verification

The two-step verification, has been offered for several years. It prompts you to enter a four-digit code when you sign into your iCloud account, purchase something from one of Apple’s stores on a new device, or make changes to your Apple ID. Those codes were delivered by push notification to an authenticated device of your choosing, or via SMS text message. It also necessitated the use of “app-specific passwords” (long random passwords generated by Apple) to log into accounts and services that didn’t support the two-step verification process, and provided a Recovery Key to store as an override, should you be unable to receive the relevant code any other way.

The newer two-factor authentication is an improvement upon that process, which Apple started rolling out last year. While the principle is similar, the execution is refined. The verification code is now six digits and is automatically sent to all of your authorized devices. When a new device is logged into your iCloud account, you’re also shown the rough location of that device (on a city level), so that you can be sure it’s not someone halfway around the world trying to gain access; there are also buttons to allow or deny that login. Authentication only happens when you log into your iCloud account from a new device for the first time, or when logging into an account on the web. (In the latter case, you can choose to trust your browser so you don’t have to do that every time.)

Go for the two step.

Andy Ghozali Geekzone Member	E: andy@ghozali.ru M: +64 21 395 458 A: Andy's Business Services, 231 High St, Christchurch 8011, NZ
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mattwnz

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#1662860 2-Nov-2016 17:35

Benjip:
mattwnz:

Thanks, but that isn't a solution, as you need txt on an iphone, and it appears it has to send that before using imessage/txts anyway, no matter whtehr you get a warning or not. I also didn't get any warning popup prior to it sending the texts. If it needs them to both be disabled first, which is fiddly to do and remember anyway, then that isn't a solution. It also is not in the instructions to do this. Probably the better questions are, why are kiwis charged by NZ telcos, when overseas they don't appear to charge. And why are apple sending international txts when they could do it locally. And why have VF put up their international txt pricing, as I suspect they will be making quite bit of money from this. I don't know how many people have iphones in NZ, but potentially it could have netted a large amount of earnings.

I would say most iPhone users do this a maximum of once per year if/when they upgrade.

I wouldn't mind it so much if it was charged at local txt rates, eg 1 cent. But I am guessing not too many people know it is doing this, to notice it. I would think most people would be annoyed if they saw the charge was related to this , but not enough to consider complaining due to the amount.

mattwnz

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#1662863 2-Nov-2016 17:39

sbiddle:
mattwnz:

Yes, but my point is , is it fair, and should this type of fee be clearly disclosed to consumers. It is essentially a hidden fee, and under the Fair trading act, I believe fees do have to be disclosed to consumers and be reasonable.

Lodge a FTA complaint about Apple and see what they say.

They are based overseas, so don't think much could be done anyway. But the retailer who sells the phone, and also is the telco could advocate with Apple on behalf of their customers about this problem, if they want to look after their customers. But they have an interest in these texts not being zero rated, as they are making a good amount of money off them. Eg zero rating the texts like they do overseas is the best solution. I am not sure why kiwis are treated worse than other countries.

sbiddle

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#1662881 2-Nov-2016 18:10

mattwnz:
sbiddle:

mattwnz:

Yes, but my point is , is it fair, and should this type of fee be clearly disclosed to consumers. It is essentially a hidden fee, and under the Fair trading act, I believe fees do have to be disclosed to consumers and be reasonable.

Lodge a FTA complaint about Apple and see what they say.

They are based overseas, so don't think much could be done anyway. But the retailer who sells the phone, and also is the telco could advocate with Apple on behalf of their customers about this problem, if they want to look after their customers. But they have an interest in these texts not being zero rated, as they are making a good amount of money off them. Eg zero rating the texts like they do overseas is the best solution. I am not sure why kiwis are treated worse than other countries.

A quick search shows not everybody zero rates the SMS's - there are people ranting in many countries about having to pay.

zocster

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#1662883 2-Nov-2016 18:17

sbiddle:

A quick search shows not everybody zero rates the SMS's - there are people ranting in many countries about having to pay.

To some 'unauthorised' Apple networks no doubt, but Vodafone is an authorised Apple carrier, so they should not be charging to receive iMessage activation.

Andy Ghozali Geekzone Member	E: andy@ghozali.ru M: +64 21 395 458 A: Andy's Business Services, 231 High St, Christchurch 8011, NZ
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Linux

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#1662892 2-Nov-2016 18:52

zocster:
sbiddle:

A quick search shows not everybody zero rates the SMS's - there are people ranting in many countries about having to pay.

To some 'unauthorised' Apple networks no doubt, but Vodafone is an authorised Apple carrier, so they should not be charging to receive iMessage activation.

It's not charged to receive but send but Vodafone / carriers get charged by 3rd party SMS routing hubs like Sybase ETC.....

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richms

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#1662896 2-Nov-2016 19:09

Cost of using iMessage. It is optional to use it, if you dont want to have these problems when you swap sims out, and have messages from other iDevice users sit in purgatory on an apple server somewhere till you reactivate an iDevice on that number, then just turn it off and do not use it.

Richard rich.ms

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