[TelstraClear] Paradise SMTP Oddity

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Nightwyrm

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Topic # 23009 15-Jun-2008 10:56

My mother-in-law has what I consider to be an odd setup for her Paradise email. Wherever she goes, she needs to change the SMTP settings on her laptop to match the ISP of whatever connection she's using (POP setting remain as Paradise). For example, she has to use smtp.xtra.co.nz at her house, smtp.xnet.co.nz at my house, and smtp.paradise.net.net at their holiday home. This is the only way she can send emails.

Personally, I reckon that your email servers should be independent of your internet connection. Does anyone kow of a legitimate reason for this oddity?

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LennonNZ

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Reply # 138136 15-Jun-2008 11:15

lugh: My mother-in-law has what I consider to be an odd setup for her Paradise email. Wherever she goes, she needs to change the SMTP settings on her laptop to match the ISP of whatever connection she's using (POP setting remain as Paradise). For example, she has to use smtp.xtra.co.nz at her house, smtp.xnet.co.nz at my house, and smtp.paradise.net.net at their holiday home. This is the only way she can send emails.

Personally, I reckon that your email servers should be independent of your internet connection. Does anyone kow of a legitimate reason for this oddity?

Most ISP's should have some type of SMTP Authentication so you can send email via their SMTP if you are not on their network. This will allow you to use your internet connection anywhere and not have to change your setting anywhere.

Thanks

Nightwyrm

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Reply # 138140 15-Jun-2008 11:34

LennonNZ: Most ISP's should have some type of SMTP Authentication so you can send email via their SMTP if you are not on their network. This will allow you to use your internet connection anywhere and not have to change your setting anywhere.

So it sounds like Paradise don't offer this form of authentication?

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sleemanj

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Reply # 138152 15-Jun-2008 12:35

lugh: For example, she has to use smtp.xtra.co.nz at her house, smtp.xnet.co.nz at my house,

Xtra at least blocks port 25 by default from leaving it's network - meaning unless you specifically ask them to permit it, you will not be able to connect to external SMTP servers on the standard port. I'm not aware if any other NZ ISP's do the same. I also don't know if Paradise runs SMTP on any other ports.

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freitasm

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Reply # 138158 15-Jun-2008 13:36

lugh: My mother-in-law has what I consider to be an odd setup for her Paradise email.

Nothing odd really. Most ISPs block access to their SMTP servers from external networks to prevent spam relay. Some provide authentication options - through their normal port or an alternate port.

lugh: Personally, I reckon that your email servers should be independent of your internet connection. Does anyone kow of a legitimate reason for this oddity?

There are lots of smtp services around, and you will not easily find a free one. Most commercial smtp services charge a fee per message relayed through theirs servers. This is independent.

Another option is to simply buy a domain and use a hosted services - such as Domain Live or Google Mail.

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sarnold

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Reply # 138721 17-Jun-2008 14:41

IPass (from Xtra for example) is another (expensive) option but is invaluable if you travel internationally and don't have your own hosted domain name and server. And of course you can dial up from anywhere at a price.

tonyhughes

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Reply # 138726 17-Jun-2008 14:55

Here is the lowdown - the SMTP servers are only open to customers on the ISPs network to prevent any old spammer being able to utilise them.

Some ISPs offer the ability to set up SMTP authentication, which allows your mail client to automatically logon to the SMTP server from any connection, regardless of ISP. Some ISPs may charge for this service, or simply not offer it.

This simple free option in many cases will completely solve the issue: : Gmail as a free SMTP server. You simplyy set up a free Gmail account, and use their free SMTP (with authentication) to send all your mail (Even from Outlook / Express / Mail etc).

Please read the article and the comments carefully to ensure you are aware of the ins and outs (and ups and downs) of taking this route. The main consideration is the "From:" address gets re-written so the recipient can see at a glance the name/email of the Gmail account.

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sarnold

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Reply # 138731 17-Jun-2008 15:11

I understood that you had to be under 40 to get a gmail account - or has that restriction changed

Nightwyrm

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Reply # 138737 17-Jun-2008 15:21

Thanks guys. From what I read, it looks like she shouldn't be able to send email from outside her own ISP? I think where I'm getting confused is where she uses my connection for example, changes her smtp settings to smtp.xnet.co.nz (keeping the paradise logon details), and sends her email successfully.

I might try the Gmail thing myself tonight - cheers Tony.

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tonyhughes

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Reply # 138743 17-Jun-2008 15:33

lugh: Thanks guys. From what I read, it looks like she shouldn't be able to send email from outside her own ISP? I think where I'm getting confused is where she uses my connection for example, changes her smtp settings to smtp.xnet.co.nz (keeping the paradise logon details), and sends her email successfully.

I might try the Gmail thing myself tonight - cheers Tony.

Correct - its an important part of the design/security that a mail server cannot be access by non-subscribers from outside of the ISPs own network of connections. Otherwise I could be in Timbukstraliastan and set my SMTP to Paradise, and send all the spam I want.

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Reply # 138748 17-Jun-2008 15:51

lugh: Thanks guys. From what I read, it looks like she shouldn't be able to send email from outside her own ISP? I think where I'm getting confused is where she uses my connection for example, changes her smtp settings to smtp.xnet.co.nz (keeping the paradise logon details), and sends her email successfully.

I might try the Gmail thing myself tonight - cheers Tony.

Most of the times the ISPs don't worry about the logon credentials or the sender address if you are connecting to the SMTP service from within their own network. That's why it works.

Again most of the times the ISPs won't allow people to connect to their SMTP servers from outside their networks, except when they have authentication in place.

As I said there are some SMTP services around, all charging fees based on e-mail volume.

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olof

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Reply # 139163 19-Jun-2008 13:07

Mostly been answered already, but here is how paradise.net is configured:

*** Paradise.net only allows SMTP from within the paradise.net or TelstraClear network. In other words, you cannot connect the the SMTP server from other providers (in NZ or overseas).

*** Paradise.net does not support SMTP AUTH (autentication).

*** However, paradise.net do allow webmail access from anywhere for reading and sending e-mails.

It is unlikely that we will enable SMTP AUTH on paradise.net going forward.

Solutions:

*** Use the paradise.net webmail interface for e-mail. (May not meet your requirements of course.)

*** Clearnet does support SMTP AUTH. If you have a TelstraClear account and account password, you can configure a free mailbox via http://selfservice.clear.net.nz/. (However, you will need the Mail+ service for "remote" POP3 access.)

*** AS suggested, use third party mail providers, like Gmail, that offer "open" SMTP services.

Cheers,

--Olof

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tonyhughes

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Reply # 139168 19-Jun-2008 13:34

I would also like to point out, that it is probably considered normal these days to offer full service mail inside the home network, and very little from outside (normally only delivering mail to the user, not sending mail out from the user, as you have discovered).

For this reason, I run my own mail server on my own domain, so that I can create my own settings (namely SMTP authenticated sessions) from any internet connection on the planet. It is surprisingly cheap and easy to get good shared hosting, run your own domain, and use your hosts mailserver.

Pretty sure you could do it for less than $100 a year all up using a New Zealand provider, or significantly less for a US provider (or as low as $free if you do it from home, which can be much less reliable if you do not know what you are doing!).