NZ Government spends $115 million on 450 new cell towers useless to thousands of mobile devices

Forums › New Zealand Mobile and Wireless › NZ Government spends $115 million on 450 new cell towers useless to thousands of mobile devices

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#2598713 6-Nov-2020 08:27

Eva888: @Linux I saw this they no longer supply them on Vodafone website.

https://www.vodafone.co.nz/mobile/3g-sure-signal/

@Eva888 Correct the service is EOL (End of Life) and Wi-Fi calling is a much better option

crewsaider

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#2598716 6-Nov-2020 08:36

I'm afraid that my very limited tech knowledge prevents any meaningful comment on this subject, but I do have a Huawei P30 Pro running on 2D software that appears to happily connect with VoLTE to the VF network. Do these 2 providers share the same VoLTE software?

zenourn

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#2598723 6-Nov-2020 08:47

quickymart:

Where was this specifically? (just out of interest, I'm from that area).

Ruatapu, just south of Hokitika.

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#2598764 6-Nov-2020 10:18

sbiddle:

That truly is a ridiculous comment - the simple reality is iOS + Samsung devices make up around 70 - 75% of the market for mobile phones in NZ with Apple around 40 - 45% and Samsung around 25% - 30% depending on who's stats you want to believe.

Every iPhone after the iPhone6 has VoLTE so that's probably an instant 30% minimum of the market already. All recent Samsung devices in recent years also support VoLTE. I'd take a totally random guess (I don't know the true figure) and pick that somewhere between maybe 40% or maybe even slightly higher of mobile devices out there in NZ right now are VoLTE capable.

You claim without any reference source, that Apple and Samsung have a certain market share, but even if I were to accept those numbers they are meaingless without further context. Is that market shre of total devices on the network? Market share of current quarter sales? Market share of last year sales?

That aside, 40% is still low and you are being disingenious saying that all those devices are supported. Handset supports it? Maybe... Carrier supports it? Very maybe and probably only if you purchased it from them.

2 degrees supports a mere 16 models for VoLTE, entirely Apple & Samsung.

Vodafone & Spark both support more models, but again they are almost entirely Apple and very recent Samsung models, their flagship phone from a mere 3 years ago isn't supported for instance, nevermind things lower down the foodchain.

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#2598772 6-Nov-2020 10:32

crewsaider:

I'm afraid that my very limited tech knowledge prevents any meaningful comment on this subject, but I do have a Huawei P30 Pro running on 2D software that appears to happily connect with VoLTE to the VF network. Do these 2 providers share the same VoLTE software?

@crewsaider I am sure they will support the same devices due to the MoRAN agreement 2d & VFNZ have you place

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#2598775 6-Nov-2020 10:36

Lias:

sbiddle:

That truly is a ridiculous comment - the simple reality is iOS + Samsung devices make up around 70 - 75% of the market for mobile phones in NZ with Apple around 40 - 45% and Samsung around 25% - 30% depending on who's stats you want to believe.

Every iPhone after the iPhone6 has VoLTE so that's probably an instant 30% minimum of the market already. All recent Samsung devices in recent years also support VoLTE. I'd take a totally random guess (I don't know the true figure) and pick that somewhere between maybe 40% or maybe even slightly higher of mobile devices out there in NZ right now are VoLTE capable.

You claim without any reference source, that Apple and Samsung have a certain market share ...

what is YOUR source for an alternate market share statistic? I would tend towards the view that most devices on the network(s) support VoLTE, that’s much more believable. I think this is a silly thread, and the OP just has a bee in his bonnet.

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#2598777 6-Nov-2020 10:39

chevrolux:

The VoLTE software also ensures the phone becomes 'locked' to the provider rendering number portability (which breaches Commerce Commission rules) and/or using the phone on another providers network without the 'new' service provider installing their specific VoLTE software which they clearly are reluctant to do.

Well that's just flat out incorrect... Sure VoLTE may not work when using a Spark firmware on, say, 2degrees network, but it has nothing to do with number portability or handset locking.

I think your statement is fundamentally incorrect.

Of course you can still transfer the number the issue is that VoLTE is provider specific. As the respective providers are not wanting to release the relevant VoLTE patches for their network, transfering to another provider then becomes a major problem. This is why I stated this issue is linked to number portability. Principally because subscribers will be required to change devices no mater how much they cost!

For example: I had a spare 2 Degrees supplied handset I gave to my partner who has a Vodafone account. The device is listed on the VoLTE approved Vodafone device list but of course it still won't work without the patch.

Sure transfer to another provider but as the device will not work to full advantage in a VoLTE coverage area it becomes by default obsolete. That is why I am so incensed by this issue.

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#2598855 6-Nov-2020 11:39

I may be confused here... But how's that work for generic stock then if it's meant to be carrier software/FW specific.

When a Generic supplied Huawei P20 (Think NZ had 2D import stock) works on all networks. And does SIM/carrier setup during first boot depending on the sim inserted. It magically started to enable VoLTE on VF when it was turned on last month. Not like it is network locked or getting specific updates. Not even 'NZ' mentioned in the FW like most the time. It's a generic multi carrier intl version (not global). Not a carrier specific device yet is toggle-able option.

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#2598857 6-Nov-2020 11:41

Oblivian:

I may be confused here... But how's that work for generic stock then if it's meant to be carrier software/FW specific.

When a Generic supplied Huawei P20 (Think NZ had 2D import stock) works on all networks. And does SIM/carrier setup during first boot depending on the sim inserted. It magically started to enable VoLTE on VF when it was turned on last month. Not like it is network locked or getting specific updates. Not even 'NZ' mentioned in the FW like most the time. It's a generic multi carrier intl version (not global). Not a carrier specific device yet is toggle-able option.

we are seeing less devices these days that are SKU'd for a particular provider - it does happen though...

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#2598858 6-Nov-2020 11:42

crewsaider:

I'm afraid that my very limited tech knowledge prevents any meaningful comment on this subject, but I do have a Huawei P30 Pro running on 2D software that appears to happily connect with VoLTE to the VF network. Do these 2 providers share the same VoLTE software?

No. It's provider specific. Are you sure its connecting using VoLTE? It may be connecting using LTE. AND yes its bloody confusing!

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#2598901 6-Nov-2020 11:45

BlinkyBill:

what is YOUR source for an alternate market share statistic? I would tend towards the view that most devices on the network(s) support VoLTE, that’s much more believable. I think this is a silly thread, and the OP just has a bee in his bonnet.

I didn't make any claims about market share of VoLTE devices other than I believed it to be small, and I was quite clear that was based on my own personal anecdotal experience. Whilst I quibbled about his lack of references, sbiddle is very knowledgeable in the telco space and even his estimate was only 40% of devices rather than "most". I'd suggest the limited numbers of models supported by the Telcos and their giant disclaimers of no support unless you purchased your hand set from them tends to support the view that many devices won't work.

OP may indeed have a bee in his bonnet, however I think the points he raises are valid and I haven't really yet seen anyone give a compelling argument against him.

So far the arguments seem to be:

A debateable amount of recent / expensive devices support the technnology so it's okay.
It would cost too much money and be too complex to do it properly.
MBIE know about it so it's okay.

None of those really cut it for me.

BlinkyBill

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#2598980 6-Nov-2020 12:50

The arguments seem to be, to me:

1) there is an issue that I didn’t prepare for that affects me

2) it affects me so it also affects the vast majority of cellular consumers

3) the telco’s and government are pandering to the elite minority of people who purchase elite-capability phones

4) telco’s and government should support all possible devices in such a way that I can continue to buy cheap devices

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#2599000 6-Nov-2020 13:38

BlinkyBill:

The arguments seem to be, to me:

1) there is an issue that I didn’t prepare for that affects me

2) it affects me so it also affects the vast majority of cellular consumers

3) the telco’s and government are pandering to the elite minority of people who purchase elite-capability phones

4) telco’s and government should support all possible devices in such a way that I can continue to buy cheap devices

I see 0/4 of these "arguments" in this topic. If I believed what you said then I can see the topic being diverted from the OP's original issue: There is a plan being implemented which will cause problems and increase costs for phone users so what can be done to ameliorate the problems or even resolve the issue?

1. Point 1 is not even an argument. The first time a mobile phone user is likely to know about the problem is when they lose mobile calling. How can I prepare for that when it is not publicised or signposted on entering the zone where this is likely to occur? I haven't read about this issue before even though aspects of it have been discussed in other topics.

2. Vast majority means almost all. The OP mentioned "thousands" and I haven't seen anyone arguing that nearly all mobile phone owners will be impacted.

3. & 4. The primary question the OP posted was about the upgrade/replacement cost being imposed on mobile device owners within the affected zones. The problem is not limited to cheap phones. I haven't interpreted this about "pandering to the elite minority" so I wonder where that came from because I have missed that entirely.

There have been a lot of VOLTE and RCG topics here but this is the first one that has allowed me to understand the main impacts on end users. I don't work for MBIE or in the industry so this topic has been enlightening. The OP's strong emotions on this issue are entirely understandable given the messy solution being implemented which may well be the most workable solution:

sbiddle:

I hope this topic doesn't turn into a soapbox - because it's nothing new and has been discussed pretty extensively on here in the past.

The reasons for RCG being deployed the way it is are numerous - and there is nothing new in those post that isn't well known by everybody in the industry and within MBIE - remembering they are the who were the driving force behind the RCG project.

Despite everything that's been mentioned here I don't see there being any fundamental issue with the whole project and fundamentally disagree that it's flawed with the exception of one single issue - inbound roaming. The fact these sites are mostly all rural and inaccessible to every single person who roams in NZ is IMHO a major failing, however deploying 3G on every site is also not a realistic option. VoLTE roaming is still dogged with issues (as is VoLTE itself) and realistically I don't know we'll ever see extensive global VoLTE calling on 4G networks.

Edited to end incomplete sentence.

crewsaider

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#2599056 6-Nov-2020 14:59

theibm:

crewsaider:

I'm afraid that my very limited tech knowledge prevents any meaningful comment on this subject, but I do have a Huawei P30 Pro running on 2D software that appears to happily connect with VoLTE to the VF network. Do these 2 providers share the same VoLTE software?

No. It's provider specific. Are you sure its connecting using VoLTE? It may be connecting using LTE. AND yes its bloody confusing!

Definitely confusing!

antonknee

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#2599096 6-Nov-2020 15:27

So why would it not simply drop back to 3G (if available)? If I recall correctly it used to be my iPhone would drop back to 3G to complete a voice call while in 4G coverage.

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