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theibm

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#279748 5-Nov-2020 14:26
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I hope this blog will assist people who are having issues with calling, VoLTE and the new RCG cell towers.

 

Having to take a belligerent stance on this matter is giving me no pleasure whatsoever however I am not going to see perfectly serviceable devices in my possession consigned to recycling because of a flawed technology roll-out. As I mentioned earlier this issue is potentially going to affect thousands of people who's mobile devices are not (respective mobile provider) VoLTE compatible thereby reducing the effectiveness of these cell towers that were commissioned to resolve problems with mobile coverage not exacerbate them! 

 

I've been trying to gain some traction with a mobile phone problem that I have recently identified, something so serious I believe is going to cause considerable problems and financial pain for thousands of Kiwi's as well as (future) overseas visitors. I have spoken to the Commerce Commission and sent them detailed information, they have already expressed some concerns although they do tend to move somewhat slowly, meanwhile the inexorable roll-out of these new towers continues.  

 

I've recently made representations to the Telecommunication Disputes Resolution people (TDR) and submitted a formal complaint to the Commerce Commission on behalf of this community, I furthermore informed the Communication Ministers office however I believe the cudgel also needs to be taken up by the likes of all NZ mobile users.

 

As you'll probably be aware the NZ government is spending $115 million commissioning the three mobile providers to install 450 much needed 'black spot' cell sites round the country and a company called The Rural Communications Group (RCG) is carrying out the work. The individual towers are apparently owned by one mobile company with mobile access services shared to the other respective mobile service providers.

 

Following the roll out of a much needed cell tower locally a number of quite serious issues related to the technology employed has started to emerge. My household among many in the locality immediately experienced a number of issues with otherwise perfectly operational mobile devices which prompted my in-depth investigation as to the extent of the problem, my engineering background and cellular industry contacts also assisted my investigation. As an senior IT engineer who is also a local ISP I've also been approached by numerous locals asking for assistance as they are not obtaining satisfaction from the service providers. What help and support is being given by the providers is marginal at best if not outright misleading.

 

The problem:

 

Immediately after the tower switch on the situation for some local mobile uses people has deteriorated rather than improve. Mainly that mobile voice services simply stopped working. When trying to make a call the phone hangs then simply disconnects after 15-30 seconds.

 

It became clearly evident through the correspondence I've had with the providers that they (the providers) do not wish to accept any liability for the loss of services or non-functionality of previously working mobile devices in the vicinity of these new cell towers. This lead me to commence a series of tests with numerous types of mobile devices connecting to the three mobile service providers in turn to ascertain the extent of the problem. 

 

Identified issues relate to voice calling:

 

 

Whilst 4G data services and TXT'ing services work normally voice calls simply stop working in the vicinity of these towers unless your in possession of a compatible phone with your service providers software (known as VoLTE) installed.

 

 

The only assistance that I have personally managed to leverage from Vodafone is a 'no liability' VoLTE software upgrade but only to devices appearing on their 'approved devices list'. Meanwhile all three mobile providers continue to sell innumerable 'non-compatible' mobile devices and/or refuse to support existing mobile devices that are well inside their expected service lifespan and to all intents and purposes working normally. It furthermore evident from my inquiries that there is no prior warnings or advice being given to customers that their new, or for that matter existing devices will not work!

 

For example: I purchased a $400 Samsung smart phone for a client from 2 Degrees two weeks ago that does not have the VoLTE software installed! It was returned!

 

Vodafone state (https://www.vodafone.co.nz/our-networks/volte/) 'Vodafone supports a range of VoLTE capable mobile phones and devices, including these: [....List omitted]'  However there is no clarification as to what additional devices might be supported or how to resolve any issues a user may experience.

 

Each provider will only pre-install their exclusive VoLTE software on phones of their choosing. 

 

At my prompting and following numerous complaints RCG circulated several weeks after the roll out a single information page to the locality. They also advised they would pass all complaints and inquiries to the respective service providers. 

 

Possible solutions:

 

 

The providers are requiring users of 'non-approved devices' to manually switch over to 3G services which negates the purpose of the towers and thereby prevents the use of any 4G data services they may be wanting to use.

 

However, and this is the rub, most users would never know if they are in the vicinity of one of these towers until their voice services stopped working or that they need to turn their phones over to 3G! All they would know is they can't make or receive calls.

 

 

 

To clarify:

 

Most modern mobiles are capable of operating in 2G, 3G and 4G modes for voice and data however the providers have introduced a 'bolt on' software application to 4G known as VoLTE. However in order to use VoLTE a mobile phone requires the service providers compatible VoLTE software to be installed. A mobile that does not have the correct VoLTE software will simply not connect voice calls, meanwhile 4G data services will function normally leading to considerable confusion.

 

If a overseas visitor for example arrives in NZ even with a VoLTE capable phone and buys a local SIM (as you do when traveling) voice calling will still not work no matter which service providers SIM is inserted. Likewise if you want to move providers any installed VoLTE software will not work on another providers network.   

 

The strength of the 4G signals in the vicinity of these towers ensures any mobile in range will lock on to the tower thereby preventing normal voice operations, incompatible phones also do not seemingly revert to a 3G signal where available as you might expect. This is not only grossly inconvenient but also a serious safety risk in the case of an emergency.

 

The VoLTE software also ensures the phone becomes 'locked' to the provider rendering number portability (which breaches Commerce Commission rules) and/or using the phone on another providers network without the 'new' service provider installing their specific VoLTE software which they clearly are reluctant to do.   

 

 

This problem will increase exponentially as more of these 450 RCG cell sites are rolled out.

 

As I mentioned earlier this issue is potentially going to affect thousands of people who's mobile devices are not compatible thereby reducing the effectiveness of these cell towers that were commissioned to resolve problems with mobile coverage not exacerbate them! In my professional opinion I believe this specific cellular technology has been ill-conceived, rushed even, clearly without any proper consideration as to the wider implications and possible consequences, financial, social or practical.

 

I pose the question: Who will pay for all these mobile device upgrades? In my home alone it will cost $1,500 to replace incompatible devices so I pity low income households. Meanwhile  the respective organizations continue to sell umpteen types of mobile devices that are not VoLTE compatible, neither are they publishing or displaying any information or warnings to this effect.  

 

I have not as yet compiled a complete list of incompatible devices but my initial inquiries appear to indicate the numbers of incompatible mobile handsets devices will be eye watering so I'm interested in hearing what others have to say.


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MikeAqua
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  #2598321 5-Nov-2020 15:07
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I just looked at the settings in my S7 and there is no VoLTE option at all.  A quick google suggests this is because either my SIM card (2 years old) isn't VoLTE compatible or there is no VoLTE service in my current location.





Mike




hio77
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  #2598326 5-Nov-2020 15:19
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I suspect this thread will become a little bit of a soapbox...

 

 

 

there are quite a few valid arguments to why volte/4G only is bad, mainly being, devices have to have the profile setup - which basically means no parallel imported or non flagship devices...

 

however... if you look at the physical gear actually required to install these towers, UTMS simply cant be deployed like 4G carriers are being done. the tech simply doesn't do it. they would have to put up all 3 providers (sure the physical antennas could be shared)

 

 

 

 





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

 

 


mudguard
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  #2598338 5-Nov-2020 15:35
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I didn't even know this was an issue. Is going back to the old days where you had to check a handset against all the frequencies of your chosen provider? 

 

That said I would hope most people check that their phone is going to work in their area before buying but as I said, I didn't think that was a thing anymore.




andrewcnz
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  #2598352 5-Nov-2020 15:59
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I thought the Rural Connectivity Group (RCG) was working with two funds.

 

Rural Broadband Initiative 2 was to fund 4G (LTE) data coverage to rural areas.

 

And the Mobile Black Spot was to provide coverage to state highways and tourist areas with 3G/4G. With top up funds from the 3 mobile providers.

 

So if you want to have access to calling in 4G (LTE) data only new areas you need an over the top voice service or a compatible volte mobile phone. 

 

 


Linux
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  #2598368 5-Nov-2020 16:38
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MikeAqua:

 

I just looked at the settings in my S7 and there is no VoLTE option at all.  A quick google suggests this is because either my SIM card (2 years old) isn't VoLTE compatible or there is no VoLTE service in my current location.

 

 

@MikeAqua VoLTE is not related to the age of the SIM, You could have a SIM card from 1994 (BellSouth) and use this in a modern handset and  VoLTE


  #2598369 5-Nov-2020 16:42
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So my reasonably new Nokia 6.1, bought from Spark and operating on Spark's network, won't be able to call 111 if an RCG tower is the loudest or only cell site in range?

That seems like a real, nasty, potentially safety-of-life issue to me


Linux
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  #2598371 5-Nov-2020 16:54
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PolicyGuy:

 

So my reasonably new Nokia 6.1, bought from Spark and operating on Spark's network, won't be able to call 111 if an RCG tower is the loudest or only cell site in range?

That seems like a real, nasty, potentially safety-of-life issue to me

 

 

@PolicyGuy Many RCG towers (Not all) do have 3G 2100Mhz on them for CSD Voice calls


 
 
 

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chevrolux
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  #2598375 5-Nov-2020 17:11
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The VoLTE software also ensures the phone becomes 'locked' to the provider rendering number portability (which breaches Commerce Commission rules) and/or using the phone on another providers network without the 'new' service provider installing their specific VoLTE software which they clearly are reluctant to do.

 

Well that's just flat out incorrect... Sure VoLTE may not work when using a Spark firmware on, say, 2degrees network, but it has nothing to do with number portability or handset locking. 


lucky015
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  #2598377 5-Nov-2020 17:15
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I'd be interested to see the percentage of devices capable of supporting VoLTE/VoWiFi as it stands across the market and what steps carriers are doing to encourage manufacturers of outside devices to enable this on models they don't ship in NZ themselves.

 

Personally I have no intention to pay a NZ carrier $2,000 for the performance and feature set I get from my $700 OnePlus device in the near(or distant) future and have resorted to setting up a VoIP service with redirects for backup although I'd prefer to use VoWiFi It's functionally useless to me just like VoLTE.


hio77
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  #2598386 5-Nov-2020 17:36
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lucky015:

 

I'd be interested to see the percentage of devices capable of supporting VoLTE/VoWiFi as it stands across the market and what steps carriers are doing to encourage manufacturers of outside devices to enable this on models they don't ship in NZ themselves.

 

Personally I have no intention to pay a NZ carrier $2,000 for the performance and feature set I get from my $700 OnePlus device in the near(or distant) future and have resorted to setting up a VoIP service with redirects for backup although I'd prefer to use VoWiFi It's functionally useless to me just like VoLTE.

 

 

just as an example, i bought a Mate 20 from spark a few years back now.

 

it came without VoLTE (VoWifi enabled on 2D) and had really bad carrier aggregation.

 

 

 

that was sparks first real dualsim flagship IIRC.

 

 

 

 

 

it's now got VoLTE on spark, but still not on 2D.

 

Carrier aggregation is not great, but has been improved. It's simply not configured to be able to preform the best on the network.

 

 

 

Is it a bad device though? not really... i don't regret the upgrade from my LG V20 





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

 

 


  #2598393 5-Nov-2020 17:44
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Linux:

 

PolicyGuy:

 

So my reasonably new Nokia 6.1, bought from Spark and operating on Spark's network, won't be able to call 111 if an RCG tower is the loudest or only cell site in range?
That seems like a real, nasty, potentially safety-of-life issue to me

 

 

@PolicyGuy Many RCG towers (Not all) do have 3G 2100Mhz on them for CSD Voice calls

 

 

@Linux, now I'm confused [not too difficult, btw 😉].

 

As I understand it, the original poster is saying that a 4G capable phone (like mine) will ignore the 3G because it 'thinks' there's a 4G signal and the phone will have data but no voice because it's not a 'qualified'/'enrolled' VoLTE device?
Have I got the wrong end of the stick? Has he?


Lias
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  #2598403 5-Nov-2020 18:23
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hio77:

 

UTMS simply cant be deployed like 4G carriers are being done. the tech simply doesn't do it. they would have to put up all 3 providers (sure the physical antennas could be shared)

 

 

Why can't they put in individual gear for 2G/3G and shared gear for 4G/5G/volte, and share the antennas and backhaul? Surely that's possible?

 

 

 

 

 

 





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sbiddle
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  #2598406 5-Nov-2020 18:28
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Lias:

 

hio77:

 

UTMS simply cant be deployed like 4G carriers are being done. the tech simply doesn't do it. they would have to put up all 3 providers (sure the physical antennas could be shared)

 

 

Why can't they put in individual gear for 2G/3G and shared gear for 4G/5G/volte, and share the antennas and backhaul? Surely that's possible?

 

 

Quite simply it's not that simple.

 

 

 

 


  #2598407 5-Nov-2020 18:30
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Lias:

 

hio77:

 

UTMS simply cant be deployed like 4G carriers are being done. the tech simply doesn't do it. they would have to put up all 3 providers (sure the physical antennas could be shared)

 

 

Why can't they put in individual gear for 2G/3G and shared gear for 4G/5G/volte, and share the antennas and backhaul? Surely that's possible?

 

I imagine cost. These are towers that are only viable because of extra funding, and then only with the combined gear. Putting 4x the equipment in each tower is likely to blow the budget.


sbiddle
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  #2598410 5-Nov-2020 18:34
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I hope this topic doesn't turn into a soapbox - because it's nothing new and has been discussed pretty extensively on here in the past.

 

The reasons for RCG being deployed the way it is are numerous - and there is nothing new in those post that isn't well known by everybody in the industry and within MBIE - remembering they are the who were the driving force behind the RCG project.

 

Despite everything that's been mentioned here I don't see there being any fundamental issue with the whole project and fundamentally disagree that it's flawed with the exception of one single issue - inbound roaming. The fact these sites are mostly all rural and inaccessible to every single person who roams in NZ is IMHO a major failing, however deploying 3G on every site is also not a realistic option. VoLTE roaming is still dogged with issues (as is VoLTE itself) and realistically I don't know we'll ever see extensive global VoLTE calling on 4G networks.

 

 


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