Selecting an IP PABX

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antz86

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#154269 22-Oct-2014 19:57

Hi

The school I work at are currently in the process of selecting a new PABX. We have received a number of quotes from different companies. These are the systems that have been specified in different quotes:

iPECS eMG80
Alcatel-Lucent Omni PCX Oxo IP
Panasonic NCP 500

Is anyone able to give any feedback about these systems? Any issues or warnings?

Any info to help with the decision making process would be appreciated.

Our requirements are to have 50 extensions, support for both analogue and IP phones and to have an IVR.

Thanks
Anthony

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#1160326 22-Oct-2014 21:27

The IPECS would be my choice based purely on the fact there are many many people installing these so support will never be an issue. The phones are quite nice and the system is really well suited to a "distributed" set up, as opposed to having a big box in the server rack - very handy of your ethernet backbone is up to spec but not so much your voice cabling.

Last time I saw an Alcatel system it was put in by Cogent and they are fast reducing their tech force - we would often be installing new systems for Cogent customers because they would be told no one would be able to turn up for a week, even though the system may have crashed!

Never seen a proper Panasonic IP system and don't know of anyone down our way still doing them.

The biggest thing I would base my decision is the competency of the installer. Nowadays your PABX installer needs to be just as competent working on the network as well as the phone system. If the PABX installer relies on someone else to set up the network I can guarantee there will be lots of 'he said, she said' if there are problems. When you are heading to IP phones your installer should have a plan to set up a separate VLAN for the voice network, set up QoS rules and know what firewall rules etc will be required. If your school has had a SNUP upgrade your network is more than ready to have that set up.

One of my favourite installs was at a school that had been SNUP'd so the network was immaculate (I'm a little bias because our company did the cabling too haha). For the phone system we went with FreePBX which is an open source platform that has been slightly commercialised to include support and some extra modules. We used Yealink IP phones which are very very nice phones. FreePBX is cool because it is SIP based and is built around the standards. With the other manufacturers true SIP support is rather limited- their IP phones are all using propriety protocols and you ultimately get less flexibility. With FreePBX it is pretty much a 'if you can dream, we can do it' kind of thing because there is the choice of ANY SIP based hardware and the built in modules of the system are very comprehensive so setting up the call flow is a very modular process. I come from a Samsung background and am still very very fond of the Samsung's as a system but there would often be a case when I was doing an install and a customer would ask for something that I knew I couldn't do on the Sammy but thought, bugger, I could do that on FreePBX.

Your requirement are rather basic so any system will suit that. The biggest thing will just be the quality of the install and how helpful your installers are during it.

sbiddle

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#1160329 22-Oct-2014 21:43

Any reason why you've only looked at traditional systems? Something Asterisk based will give you far greater capabilities for a fraction of the price of any of those systems.

jnimmo

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#1160331 22-Oct-2014 21:49

My only warning would be most of the manufacturers doing their IP PBXs charging for licenses for more interesting features etc which are free/cheap with something like FreePBX.
I'm sad the Cisco Small Business line is discontinued, it was fantastic with great hardware.

I have to say the Panasonic SIP phones I've seen are pretty nice. Recently seen about 90 installed with an Asterisk PBX. The installers unfortunately didn't get a provisioning system in place meaning they configured each phone manually but there are better ways to do that.

Things to look out for:
- Do you have PoE infrastructure? This isn't cheap and probably not included in the quotes from the vendors. DC adapters to power phones isn't nice
- If you will need to use the phones as switches at all, (to link through to a PC) good idea to get ones that are gigabit, if you have gigabit infrastructure
- Make sure the configs can be locked down and IPs of the phones not available to students from the network, or they will get in and play

Perhaps some other members can suggest someone who could quote for an open source system, if you're interested?

sbiddle

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#1160336 22-Oct-2014 21:57

You also need to look at how you're going to connect to the outside world, something that's also very important as the costs will vary significantly based on this.

old3eyes

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#1160411 23-Oct-2014 08:37

sbiddle: You also need to look at how you're going to connect to the outside world, something that's also very important as the costs will vary significantly based on this.

You may find that the Min of Ed has a lot to do with this. I know of several schools that have been forced to use SIP provider A then 8 months later the MOE has said that they have to use SIP provider B because it's cheaper but the techs have a hell of a time migrating across.
Also most schools won't want soft switches as most of their phones are analog..

Regards,

Old3eyes

icehockeyfan

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1160414 23-Oct-2014 08:46

HI Antz86,

I would do my research about the supplier of each product the level of support the reputation etc, Ask around, not just google it :). Make sure you have a reliable, robust solution going forward with a stable SIP provider for your lines. Just to note: the NCP500 is being replaced by the NS700 this month, also the NS1000 is the main IP PBX Panasonic supply, so you want to make sure you get the latest product for SIP support from the supplier.

Cheers and good luck

chevrolux

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#1160422 23-Oct-2014 08:56

I have to say the Panasonic SIP phones I've seen are pretty nice. Recently seen about 90 installed with an Asterisk PBX. The installers unfortunately didn't get a provisioning system in place meaning they configured each phone manually but there are better ways to do that.

I can't decide whether they are just plain lazy or don't know what they are doing. There is absolutely zero reason why an install shouldn't be plug & play. Having a central provisioning tool means no mistakes (if the provisioning tool is integrated with the PABX) and far far less work when it comes to troubleshooting. I would be very concerned with the a system of 90 phones with no provisioning - those installers don't know what they are doing.

As for picking a traditional PABX over a soft switch, most schools have now been covered by SNUP so there really is no need to have analogue stations as opposed to IP. Every core cabinet has a layer 3 switch and all edge cabinets have layer 2 switches making setting up a VLAN very stress free with no extra costs. And the majority of data outlets are dual's so you can even have a dedicated port for the phone, or make it a trunk port if you want to share with a PC. Also, an entry level Yealink IP handset is under $100.

Like sbiddle mentioned, an Asterisk based solution may be cheaper but I look it at more like a re-distribution of costs. You may spend $10k on an iPecs but only get new phones in your key areas and keep analogue out around the school. But if you went with FreePBX you might still spend $7-8k but get brand new IP phones everywhere and just have analogue support for stuff like paging system (although you can get SIP interfaces for these) and faxes.
The thing with a traditional PABX is that they can basically be installed on defaults and work straight off the bat. FreePBX takes more time to configure and get everything right so installers will have more labour costs. I know that when I quoted a FreePBX vs Samsung the Samsung would pretty much always be more expensive but that was due only to hardware but I would always market FreePBX as more bang for your buck and far more flexibility.

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sbiddle

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#1160428 23-Oct-2014 09:01

I can't agree more - I'd question the knowledge of anybody deploying 90 phones and manually configuring these. I'd never consider this to be acceptable in the real world.

I've deployed quite a few 100+ VoIP phone multisite installs and can tell you that the number of ongoing changes that occur are significant. Without auto provisioning of phones to be able to update BLF buttons etc you'd be dealing with significant, and completely unnecessary site visits and labour costs to do something should literally take a few seconds.

CokemonZ

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#1160478 23-Oct-2014 09:54

Full disclosure - I work for MHA Cloud Computing (www.mhacloud.com)

We do a fully hosted version of Microsoft Lync with PABX functionality and the ability to call landlines, and have people call in.

We've got a few schools using it - Avondale Intermediate comes to mind immediately.

It offers a chunk more than just calling and PABX:
Video calling,
Skype integration
Screen sharing
Presence and Instant Messaging (With an Audit trail)
The ability to setup and run webinars - and invite external people to join - great for external speakers speaking to the class.
A Virtual whiteboard that can work on any touch screen.

The schools are using Lync to increase collaboration, and to replace their current legacy phone systems.
We host and manage the whole thing - so it works out pretty cost effectively. And most importantly - we take care of the upgrades!

Your teachers and office staff can choose their devices - phones, wireless headsets, Logitech video conference units.

Give me a shout - Daniel@mhacloud.com
Happy to have a chat.

antz86

3 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1160793 23-Oct-2014 16:12

Thanks for all the replies.

Yes we have been SNUP'd and do have PoE infrastructure already. We won't be needing to use the phones as switches as we have plenty of spare ports.

All of the quotes we have received so far have been to keep the analogue phones in most places and only upgrade to the main office ones to IP phones. We haven't looked into anything Asterisk based but are open to any ideas. Could anyone recommend a company to quote an Asterisk based system? We are in the Howick, Auckland area.

In terms of connecting to the outside world we are currently on N4L for internet access and using Callplus for the ISDN lines. We have a price from them for SIP trunks also.

We want a system that is going to be secure and reliable, that also has good support when something does go wrong.

Anthony

sbiddle

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#1160864 23-Oct-2014 18:18

Just as a ballpark figure for an Asterisk system (for comparison) you'd be looking at about $7k or so excluding any margin for a reseller or configuration.

5 x phones @ $750
1 x Server $1500
2 x Astribank (48 ports) $4000
2 x BRI PCI card (if required assuming you didn't want to use SIP) $250

Server costs could be a lot lower depending on requirements, realistically your system could run fine on a $50 2nd hand PC!

chevrolux

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#1160894 23-Oct-2014 18:53

I would look at doing budget IP phones (Yealink T19P are great!) around the school as opposed to analogue. The benefit I see with using purely IP phones is that they are essentially plug and play. Meaning when you want to add a phone your installer can just remote in to the system, add an extension, and then post you a phone. You go plug it in to the correct switch port (assuming a port based VLAN is used) and you are away.

The ones I am aware of in Auckland are Hitech. I'm slightly apprehensive to recommend them though because the last system I saw from them was a Trixbox which I thought had been dead and buried for a long time. But then again I may be competely wrong - they have a nice website and it seems active so things obviously work for them.

Regs

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Snowflake

#1160901 23-Oct-2014 19:01

CokemonZ: Full disclosure - I work for MHA Cloud Computing (www.mhacloud.com)

We do a fully hosted version of Microsoft Lync with PABX functionality and the ability to call landlines, and have people call in.

We've got a few schools using it - Avondale Intermediate comes to mind immediately.

It offers a chunk more than just calling and PABX:
Video calling,
Skype integration
Screen sharing
Presence and Instant Messaging (With an Audit trail)
The ability to setup and run webinars - and invite external people to join - great for external speakers speaking to the class.
A Virtual whiteboard that can work on any touch screen.

The schools are using Lync to increase collaboration, and to replace their current legacy phone systems.
We host and manage the whole thing - so it works out pretty cost effectively. And most importantly - we take care of the upgrades!

Your teachers and office staff can choose their devices - phones, wireless headsets, Logitech video conference units.

Give me a shout - Daniel@mhacloud.com
Happy to have a chat.

you (MHA) can also link the voicemail to office 365 exchange (for which there are special school offers) which makes it even better right? :)

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antz86

3 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1160903 23-Oct-2014 19:13

Regs:
CokemonZ: Full disclosure - I work for MHA Cloud Computing (www.mhacloud.com)

We do a fully hosted version of Microsoft Lync with PABX functionality and the ability to call landlines, and have people call in.

We've got a few schools using it - Avondale Intermediate comes to mind immediately.

It offers a chunk more than just calling and PABX:
Video calling,
Skype integration
Screen sharing
Presence and Instant Messaging (With an Audit trail)
The ability to setup and run webinars - and invite external people to join - great for external speakers speaking to the class.
A Virtual whiteboard that can work on any touch screen.

The schools are using Lync to increase collaboration, and to replace their current legacy phone systems.
We host and manage the whole thing - so it works out pretty cost effectively. And most importantly - we take care of the upgrades!

Your teachers and office staff can choose their devices - phones, wireless headsets, Logitech video conference units.

Give me a shout - Daniel@mhacloud.com
Happy to have a chat.

you (MHA) can also link the voicemail to office 365 exchange (for which there are special school offers) which makes it even better right? :)

We are an Apple and Google Apps school so don't really want to be making big changes to other apps etc just to replace our phone system.

sbiddle

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#1160905 23-Oct-2014 19:19

chevrolux: I would look at doing budget IP phones (Yealink T19P are great!) around the school as opposed to analogue. The benefit I see with using purely IP phones is that they are essentially plug and play. Meaning when you want to add a phone your installer can just remote in to the system, add an extension, and then post you a phone. You go plug it in to the correct switch port (assuming a port based VLAN is used) and you are away.

The ones I am aware of in Auckland are Hitech. I'm slightly apprehensive to recommend them though because the last system I saw from them was a Trixbox which I thought had been dead and buried for a long time. But then again I may be competely wrong - they have a nice website and it seems active so things obviously work for them.

They still sell Trixbox (now just called Fonality) but you're paying some pretty steep per seat costs every month for it.

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