Considering letting POTS copper line go

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drblack

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Topic # 179395 7-Sep-2015 10:15

I currently have a POTS copper line (Spark) and a UFB connection (Chorus via Solarix) with 5 Gigaset VOIP handsets running on WxC open VfX (World Exchange. I am using a Sonicwall TZ100 router and that and the ONT are on one of the new Constant Vigilance UPS devices which works perfectly.

It all works very well and the copper line handles fax and alarm as well as providing another calling trunk. It's in a large house/farm/home business situation. I'm happy with all the providers but it is all a bit cumbersome and uneconomical compared to other offerings. The copper POTS line gives good service in a power cut and I am keen to replicate that with a digital connection hence my first preference is to have a least one line on the Chorus ONT ATA socket (to replace the copper line) and work with the one analog line on the gigaset system.

An option is to move to Spark for the broadband and they will then use the POTS facility on the Chorus ONT for the POTS phone service. Alternatively I could move to Vodafone for the phone and broadband but I understand they will provide a Residential Gateway. Similar for WxC but more expensive a lower UFB specs although I really like the service from that company.

Any comments on the above are all welcome. My real question though, and the reason for this post is will Spark or Vodafone block the SIP service to my Gigaset phones if I have a POTS line with them? (ie Spark on the ONT or Vodafone on their box).

Or I could stick with what we have until Spark turn up anyway to swing the analog line over to the ONT. I would rather plan ahead though.

By the way does anyone know which providers other than Spark use the ATA in the Chorus ONT?

Best wishes

David

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cisconz
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Reply # 1380971 7-Sep-2015 10:29

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I run VoIP over Vodafone connections with no issues.

I wouldn't be putting Faxes over an ATA - you will get reliability issues.
Same with alarm, I would be upgrading to an IP Dialer on the Alarm Panel.

Cheers David

Hmmmm

speed

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Reply # 1380981 7-Sep-2015 10:40

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Hi David

In direct reply to your query, no they will not block your SIP packets. The ATA port on the ONT is on a separate VLAN and has no affect on any bitstream service deployed on the same ONT.

Having said that, if you were to go to Spark and ask them to change your copper PoTS over to their new fiber based homeline service, they would actually deploy a second fibre link and ONT to your site and deploy the ATA port on that second ONT. The reason they would do that is because Chorus will not allow different service providers to access different services on the same ONT. So if you want (fibre) PoTS from Spark and continue with your existing IP service from Solarix then you'll be getting a second ONT (which may have a small impact of UPS runtime due to the increased quiescent current of the entire system).

If I were in your shoes I would consider going completely IP and dropping the PoTS. Replace the fax service with fax-to-email and email-to-fax (if needed, although most people email direct these days), and replace the alarm monitoring with a cellular (or cellular & IP) based package (may require new dialer). But that's just what I'd do. There is nothing wrong with the way you proposal, just be aware that due to Chorus' internal practises and procedures, you may end up with a second fibre an ONT.

Pete

drblack

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Wannabe Geek

Reply # 1381002 7-Sep-2015 11:15

Thanks for that advice. I was going to use IP for the alarm and maybe let the fax go or use the WxC fax service.

Do you have the Vodafone RG supporting one of their lines (ie using the ATA in that box) as well as your own ATA. My concern is whether with that setup another downstream SIP service is tolerated.

David

speed

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Reply # 1381028 7-Sep-2015 11:38

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To get a working configuration with two SIP clients on the IP side (ie one built into the RGW and one stand-alone elsewhere on the internal LAN) will ultimately depend on the NAT code in the RGW and whether it does anything special to redirect SIP packets to it's own internal client and potentially causing issues with other client.

I'm afraid I can't make any helpful assertions with regards to the capabilities of VF's RGWs.

Pete

coffeebaron

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Reply # 1381034 7-Sep-2015 11:47

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Why do you have preference with VoIP on the ONT over VoIP on a RGW? They are both VoIP and both require a UPS to run in a power cut. On the ONT, VoIP will fail if there is a fibre outage; but VoIP on a RGW could be configured to failover to a mobile data connection should there be a fibre outage. IMO VoIP on the RGW would be more reliable and flexible then VoIP on the ONT.

Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend from $150 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.
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drblack

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Reply # 1381200 7-Sep-2015 15:07

I had reasoned that a POTs service that didn't require an internet login and only one device might be more robust but I see from your advice that there are seperate and perhaps more compelling advantages in using a RGW. I will now look more carefully at that option.

That's interesting news about the Chorus requirement for 2 ONT's if I use 2 ISP's. I presume that would not be the case if I bought both POTS and Broadband from Spark?

Many thanks for your valuable advice.

David

speed

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Reply # 1381205 7-Sep-2015 15:17

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Hi David

That is correct. If you buy PoTS (fibre) and 'broadband' (IP service, fibre) both from Spark then they will be deployed on the single ONT.

Furthermore, last I heard no other 'line providers' other than Spark were purchasing the ATA port service from Chorus (please anyone correct me here if I'm wrong), so they will therefore be the only RSP able to provide both services on the same ONT.

Maybe it's also worth pointing out that if you order multiple PoTS services from Spark now they are each deployed on their own dedicated feeder fibre and ONT. This is due to the way that Chorus implements the service (max one ATA port per ONT).

Again if I am misled (and therefore misleading) on this then please others do correct me! (sbiddle, I'm looking at you ;)

Pete

hyperman

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Reply # 1381207 7-Sep-2015 15:22

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speed: Hi David

That is correct. If you buy PoTS (fibre) and 'broadband' (IP service, fibre) both from Spark then they will be deployed on the single ONT.

Furthermore, last I heard no other 'line providers' other than Spark were purchasing the ATA port service from Chorus (please anyone correct me here if I'm wrong), so they will therefore be the only RSP able to provide both services on the same ONT.

Maybe it's also worth pointing out that if you order multiple PoTS services from Spark now they are each deployed on their own dedicated feeder fibre and ONT. This is due to the way that Chorus implements the service (max one ATA port per ONT).

Again if I am misled (and therefore misleading) on this then please others do correct me! (sbiddle, I'm looking at you ;)

Pete

sounds to me like ICMS (aka I see a mess) is still hard at work here!

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drblack

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Reply # 1381221 7-Sep-2015 15:35

Thanks Pete

So as I understand it now a Spark service for POTS and Broadband would use 2 separate VLAN's over one fibre connection from Chorus?

And that would mean that I could run the Gigaset phones for my 2 open vfx VOIP lines on the Spark Broadband connection?

If I use Vodafone and their RGW is the QOS just as good with both running on one VLAN? And could I still add the open vfx phones as well without QOS issues?

I'm learning a lot today - much appreciated.

David

speed

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Reply # 1381226 7-Sep-2015 15:47

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>So as I understand it now a Spark service for POTS and Broadband would use 2 separate VLAN's over one fibre connection from Chorus?

Booma. You got it :) They are two different services that Spark have purchased from Chorus. The VLAN carrying the ATA traffic has guaranteed bandwidth on the Chorus network too.

> And that would mean that I could run the Gigaset phones for my 2 open vfx VOIP lines on the Spark Broadband connection?

Again correct, with the only cavet being that your RGW needs to support multiple SIP clients on the LAN side (which most do, but I can't speak for Spark's free RGW devices as I haven't tried them).

> If I use Vodafone and their RGW is the QOS just as good with both running on one VLAN?

Technically no. But will you ever notice the difference? Probably also no. The QoS would be in the hands of you and your RSP instead of being a core part of the product from Chorus. Remember that QoS needs to be applied to both ends of the link to be of any use for VoIP (some RSPs do provide an interface for control of this, eg 2talk on their data connections).

But it has worked fine for your SIP links thus-far right? Then it'll still work just fine after too :)

>And could I still add the open vfx phones as well without QOS issues?

Correct, but again dependent on the NAT in your RGW. Generally turning off any ALGs for SIP and letting the remote (carrier) end handle the packet-mangling is a good start. They tend to know what they're doing.

Do you have any real need to run a different RGW? Unless you have another reason to change, you might be well served by sticking with the TZ100...

Pete

drblack

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Reply # 1384623 9-Sep-2015 20:40

Yes the SonicWall router, even old is about as good as they get, and I have the VOIP hardware in my Gigaset phones which works perfectly with Open WxC VfX. In the past I have dealt with WxC for internet but had to change to Unleash (who become Solarix) because I needed 2 IP addresses on the connection, a requirement which runs out in October as my old (magnificent) Groupwise server goes offline. As I am retiring it is tempting to go to a cheaper connection with a Telco especially Vodafone as I have mobile business there, but I have to weigh that against the support I have had from WxC and Solarix both of which which have been nothing short of perfect.

I think I will start with making the copper line redundant - probably cellular option for alarm - rethink the need for fax - then replace the main trunk with VfX line as that system works perfectly and is up and running. I can put a UPS on the Gigaset base station then we have all the phones in a power cut as long as the handsets hold up. Then I will see what is offering from existing suppliers for the UFB.

Many thanks for all your advice. It has greatly helped me see a way forward.

David

webwat

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Reply # 1392976 23-Sep-2015 19:05

coffeebaron: Why do you have preference with VoIP on the ONT over VoIP on a RGW? They are both VoIP and both require a UPS to run in a power cut. On the ONT, VoIP will fail if there is a fibre outage; but VoIP on a RGW could be configured to failover to a mobile data connection should there be a fibre outage. IMO VoIP on the RGW would be more reliable and flexible then VoIP on the ONT.

REally depends how reliable your RGW is, if you have a cheap one and find yourself having to reboot it occasionally then voip on the ONT is better. If your provider has problems with PPP occasionally then again voip on the ONT is better. If your preferred provider has problems getting voip on the ONT then the RGW is better.

Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going ^_^

drblack

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Reply # 1395546 28-Sep-2015 09:44

Thanks webwat, those are all issues that had occurred to me. I prefer a system where at least the main house phone can be managed remotely by the provider, for example if I am away from home I don't want the property to have no service requiring remote instructions or a visit. On that basis the ONT has considerable attraction.

Is it still only Spark that does it?

David

coffeebaron

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Reply # 1395582 28-Sep-2015 10:27

I think My Republic also use the ONT for voice.

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speed

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Reply # 1395586 28-Sep-2015 10:33

>I think My Republic also use the ONT for voice.

Really? Wow, I was led to believe that Spark were the only RSP purchasing the ATA service from Chorus.

Can anyone else on-list confirm for certain?

Pete

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