VoIP + Emergency Services

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jourdant

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#71431 10-Nov-2010 11:16

Hey everyone

So I need some clarity. We have been running VoIP as our primary phone system for the majority of this year with 2Talk as our ITSP.

One thing that wasn't considered before our migration was how emergency calls would be handled.

I sent an email to 2Talk about this and the response I got was basically, "Emergency calls will be connected, but they will not be able to tell your location".

And this brings me to my question, is there anything we can do to get around this? I notice in the states there are providers that handle the E911 side of things. Is there an equivalent here in NZ? Or is there an alternate process we have to go through to register an address with our number?

Thanks

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#402809 10-Nov-2010 13:19

jourdant: I sent an email to 2Talk about this and the response I got was basically, "Emergency calls will be connected, but they will not be able to tell your location".

Alittle of topic, but, have you tested your phones/PBX to make sure you can make emergency calls. Try ringing 111, and make sure you tell the operator it was a test call and all is ok.

I'm amazed at how many people try to make the call and find their call routing rules don't allow them to.

itxtme

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#402860 10-Nov-2010 14:19

My understanding was if you have a local number it must be attached to an address, in my case Xnet were quite adamant that I register a home address with the number. That being said emergency services do not rely on the address provided by the number. They will always ask for your address, in fact Ambulance asks for this as the very first question when you call 111.

jourdant

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#402862 10-Nov-2010 14:24

nate: Alittle of topic, but, have you tested your phones/PBX to make sure you can make emergency calls. Try ringing 111, and make sure you tell the operator it was a test call and all is ok.

I'm amazed at how many people try to make the call and find their call routing rules don't allow them to.

Very good point!

The calls route properly.

jourdant

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#402864 10-Nov-2010 14:27

itxtme: My understanding was if you have a local number it must be attached to an address, in my case Xnet were quite adamant that I register a home address with the number. That being said emergency services do not rely on the address provided by the number. They will always ask for your address, in fact Ambulance asks for this as the very first question when you call 111.

Yes this is correct. One scenario I was thinking would be if you for some reason couldn't talk etc.. So the only address they had to go off was the one registered with your line. I wonder if the address registered with 2Talk works the same way.

I do remember speaking to someone a few months back mentioning you could register something with the police? Does anybody know if this is true?

sarg

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#402939 10-Nov-2010 16:21

try this site http://www.myaddress.co.nz/

that would be an ecumenical matter

sbiddle

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#403029 10-Nov-2010 19:06

IMHO VoIP providers should be required to maintain current address details for providers.

Providers like 2talk will never be able to comply with the TCF Emergency Services Calling code because they don't comply with the requirements of this code.

IMHO any phone provider who doesn't comply with this code should be forced to provide stickers for all phones that advise that they are non compliant and can't be used for emergency calls.

A 111 call failure from a VoIP line resulting in a death or near death is going to happen in NZ soon an the media will go into a frenzy when it happens. When it does there are going to be people asking questions as to how this could happen...

Beccara

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#403050 10-Nov-2010 19:41

Great! Tell us how we provide numbers to address to 111 services and I'll do it myself for our VOIP platform.

Right now I have asked many and nobody can tell me how a voice provider can link numbers to address, At my last job we got lines via ISDN and our clients connected via VOIP for this, As such we had a huge number of DDI blocks all pointing at our office address, Telecom Wholesale couldn't provide me with an answer and neither can the current supplier in my current role.

I have to admit it's something that has kept me up at night from time to time, Your right sbiddle someone will die at somepoint but the mechanism isn't in place for VoIP providers to provide details to 111 services and thats not something we as a VoIP provider can do anything about

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joshp

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#403346 11-Nov-2010 12:00

The Telecommunications Carrier Forum (TCF) is working on this very thing:

http://tcf.org.nz/content/a21f526e-5f82-41fa-9aa8-4dd8538b6b7d.html

http://wxc.co.nz

oxnsox

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#403378 11-Nov-2010 13:14

Same rules should also be applied to VF Home Phone Wireless products (Fixed line numbers applied to wireless devices).

I know people who use these types of units for businesses which have relocated... people shift house.... and some folk buy them simply because they can take them with them to the bach, or in the motorhome or boat.

You may be right that someday someone will suffer more because the system they've elected to use doesn't provide some hidden benefit to them.... isn't that all part of consumer choice?

Ragnor

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#403418 11-Nov-2010 14:17

sbiddle: IMHO VoIP providers should be required to maintain current address details for providers.

Providers like 2talk will never be able to comply with the TCF Emergency Services Calling code because they don't comply with the requirements of this code.

IMHO any phone provider who doesn't comply with this code should be forced to provide stickers for all phones that advise that they are non compliant and can't be used for emergency calls.

A 111 call failure from a VoIP line resulting in a death or near death is going to happen in NZ soon an the media will go into a frenzy when it happens. When it does there are going to be people asking questions as to how this could happen...

Not sure I agree.

Don't you think assuming a number has to be tired to an address is a flawed concept in the digital age when a call can be routed/relayed to anywhere and any device over an ip network.

I would be interested in the stats of how many 111 calls are made where the caller wasn't able to tell the operator the location. Anyone know?

I guess presence information will be done by SIP + SIMPLE or something to return a GPS location.

jourdant

44 posts

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#403448 11-Nov-2010 15:32

Ragnor:

Not sure I agree.

Don't you think assuming a number has to be tired to an address is a flawed concept in the digital age when a call can be routed/relayed to anywhere and any device over an ip network.

I would be interested in the stats of how many 111 calls are made where the caller wasn't able to tell the operator the location. Anyone know?

I guess presence information will be done by SIP + SIMPLE or something to return a GPS location.

There are so many scenarios. It would be nice if you could opt in to specify your address or similar. We definitely won't be moving from our current building any time soon. Also the number we set would not be used anywhere offsite. For those numbers it probably wouldn't be optimal to map an address with unless that SIP + SIMPLE was a viable solution.

old3eyes

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#403566 11-Nov-2010 19:38

Ragnor:
sbiddle: IMHO VoIP providers should be required to maintain current address details for providers.

Providers like 2talk will never be able to comply with the TCF Emergency Services Calling code because they don't comply with the requirements of this code.

IMHO any phone provider who doesn't comply with this code should be forced to provide stickers for all phones that advise that they are non compliant and can't be used for emergency calls.

A 111 call failure from a VoIP line resulting in a death or near death is going to happen in NZ soon an the media will go into a frenzy when it happens. When it does there are going to be people asking questions as to how this could happen...

Not sure I agree.

Don't you think assuming a number has to be tired to an address is a flawed concept in the digital age when a call can be routed/relayed to anywhere and any device over an ip network.

.

Your correct. My 2Talk fone can be taken anywhere in NZ or the world. As long as it gets an IP address and registers to 2Talks voip server I could call 111 from Perth or the like..

Regards,

Old3eyes

Torque

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#403591 11-Nov-2010 20:20

I would be interested in the stats of how many 111 calls are made where the caller wasn't able to tell the operator the location. Anyone know?

Having been a calltaker, I can't give any exact measurement, other than that there is a fair few. So many differing reasons can encompass this however - technical difficulties, they don't know, they aren't on the line long enough, language difficulties etc etc.

But the location of the incident should be the first thing the calltaker asks when the 111 call is presented.

coffeebaron

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#403605 11-Nov-2010 21:04

Then of course there are all those 111 calls from mobiles, no address there either. And no I don't want my GPS to be used for this!

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sbiddle

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#403613 11-Nov-2010 21:31

coffeebaron: Then of course there are all those 111 calls from mobiles, no address there either. And no I don't want my GPS to be used for this!

I think E911 (or maybe E111 in NZ) should be mandated by the Government. With their obsession with 111 I'm really surprised this hasn't already happened. Aussie will probably have this mandated by mid 2011.

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