Photographing your ID

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martyyn

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#312801 18-May-2024 10:41

I've been asked twice recently by businesses to take a photo of my ID (drivers licence and/or credit card) and now my 16yo daughter is in a shop with them insisting on photographing her ID (drivers licence) for an ear piercing. They can only say "it's our policy", they won't give a reason.

I've refused all three, but do you allow businesses to take photos of your ID?

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Geek @ Coastguard NZ
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#3232057 18-May-2024 10:53

Keep finger over part of the ID #'s and let them take a pic that way.

Worst I've had, is with Blizzard (gaming) - they wanted a photo of my passport to reset my account, and would not accept anything else, even though I told them it is against NZ law to do this. Noone seems to give a toss about laws etc when it comes to ID....

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SirHumphreyAppleby

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#3232059 18-May-2024 10:53

No. I've had a bank ask me to e-mail them updated copies of my ID. Naturally, I refused. If the organisations which are required by law to validate your ID can't do so securely, there is no way I would trust a random business with copies.

qwertee

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#3232067 18-May-2024 11:50

Had to take a photo of my Drivers License to activate my Wise account.

I did comply as I wanted the service.

RunningMan

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#3232069 18-May-2024 12:15

https://www.privacy.org.nz/blog/photocopying-proof-of-identity/

https://privacy.org.nz/privacy-act-2020/privacy-principles/13/

Sounds like they are on pretty shaky ground keeping that info.

k1w1k1d

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#3232071 18-May-2024 12:25

Very interesting.

Mehrts

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#3232080 18-May-2024 13:12

On another note, since Police already have instant access to your driver licence details online, surely there's not really any practical reason why you need to carry the physical card with you any more? A photo on your phone has all the same details, and they can verify those details against the records on their system to prevent people from photoshopping them etc.

Yes, by law you currently need to carry it when driving, but laws typically lag technolocial advancements.

The sooner digital licences are a thing, the better, in my opinion.

freitasm

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#3232155 18-May-2024 16:15

qwertee:
Had to take a photo of my Drivers License to activate my Wise account.

I did comply as I wanted the service.

But that is a different thing really. They have to comply with financial legislation.

The piercing shop on the other hand wants to make sure you are able to consent. Even so, keeping a photo is not OK. How do they manage it? Keep on the employee's phone? No security?

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johno1234

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#3232158 18-May-2024 16:32

martyyn: I've been asked twice recently by businesses to take a photo of my ID (drivers licence and/or credit card) and now my 16yo daughter is in a shop with them insisting on photographing her ID (drivers licence) for an ear piercing. They can only say "it's our policy", they won't give a reason.

I've refused all three, but do you allow businesses to take photos of your ID?

If you purchase items with large amounts of cash e.g. > $10k you will be asked for ID by the shop and they will take a copy. If you don't like it they won't sell you the item for cash. It helps to protect the retailer from being complicit in money laundering or purchasing stolen goods.

It is the same thing when you purchase a house, or invest in a fund. The AML laws require a signed, notorised copy of your ID.

Goosey

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#3232264 19-May-2024 08:24

freitasm:
qwertee:

Had to take a photo of my Drivers License to activate my Wise account.

I did comply as I wanted the service.

But that is a different thing really. They have to comply with financial legislation.

The piercing shop on thcotherchand wants to make sure you are able to consent. Even so, keeping a photo is not OK. How do they manage it? Keep on the employee's phone? No security?

These type of reputable chain store piercing places Ive been to use a motorola handheld that you use to scroll through and fill out a very very long form with applicants details, consenters details (in my case parent of the 5 year old), then pages of terms and conditions to which you press on an accept button a lot of times (they really push the point of checking the consent, the ramifications of what piercings have etc etc.

At the time, they then take a pic of the ID using that handheld.

I did mention to another parent (we went with friends), that this was all a bit tedious trying to type into the handheld with a supplied stylus for the info being requested and sureley in this day and age they could have used a tablet. (mind you someone might steal the tablet as opposed to the motorola handheld that certainly didnt look like a phone).

Understandable they want a copy of ID for the consentor incase of the usual ramifications for "under age" getting a few holes without parent knowledge and then the parent comes barging down to the mall....cue the proof from the store.

I noticed they did check multiple times about consent to the person getting the piercing and the consentor, both in the paperwork and in person.

I didnt bother to check how long they keep info for but id say it would be kept as part of their CRM.

Edit: said 5 year old said afterwards (Daddy, we are not coming back here ever again, Im done.)

she just wanted earings and shes happy with that.

cddt

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#3232266 19-May-2024 09:00

freitasm:

The piercing shop on the other hand wants to make sure you are able to consent.

Some children get their ears pierced before they are able to consent or even have ID. Therefore doesn't seem like a reason to sight ID.

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RunningMan

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#3232269 19-May-2024 09:14

cddt:

Some children get their ears pierced before they are able to consent or even have ID. Therefore doesn't seem like a reason to sight ID.

Sight it, and record that it's been sighted by all means, but retaining a copy, particularly if that copy includes the personal and unique identifiers such as driver licence number and version is not good. They'd have a pretty big hill to climb to argue that was reasonable when the starting point is it can't be done.

Bung

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#3232273 19-May-2024 09:34

If the piercing shop ever had to justify themselves I think they'd need more proof than a tick that they'd sighted the parent's id. The NZTA starting point is don't give your license details out unless you're satisfied it's for a legitimate purpose. They don't say never.

RunningMan

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#3232283 19-May-2024 10:32

It's not NZTA's call though. The Privacy Act is very strong on unique identifiers - i.e. Driver Licence number.

Unique identifiers are individual numbers, references, or other forms of identification allocated to people by organisations as a way to uniquely identify the person to the organisation assigning the identifier. Examples include driver’s licence numbers, passport numbers, IRD numbers, or National Health Index (NHI) numbers.

An agency may not require an individual to disclose any unique identifier assigned to that individual unless the disclosure is for one of the purposes in connection with which that unique identifier was assigned or is for a purpose that is directly related to one of those purposes.

So you cannot be made to tell anyone your driver licence number unless it is drirectly related to driving - giving it to your boss because you drive a work car is probably OK, but giving it to a random piercing shop because your kid is getting their ears done is not OK.

No issue with them noting the name and contact details of the person giving permission so they can be identified later if required, but huge problem with them taking a complete copy of the driver licence including unique identifier.

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Kyanar

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#3232284 19-May-2024 10:42

New Zealand really needs to get moving on something like the Australian Government's Document Verification Service - absolutely no need to sight physical ID, merely provide the details and have it verified online with the issuer, with the provider only getting a "Yes, this document is valid" or "No, this document is not valid" response - with the that response being legally accepted as verification of identity. Provider only needs to record "ID sighted" and the details from the DVS response. Coupled with RealMe (which is criminally underused - it's a fantastic system compared to many others) you have yourself an answer to online and in person verification with minimal comparative risk.

freitasm

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#3232334 19-May-2024 11:08

cddt:

freitasm:

The piercing shop on the other hand wants to make sure you are able to consent.

Some children get their ears pierced before they are able to consent or even have ID. Therefore doesn't seem like a reason to sight ID.

I agree it's not a reason. I am saying it's a justification.

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