Harvey Norman...It's Coming...

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almaznz

89 posts

Master Geek

#720613 21-Nov-2012 10:20

itxtme:
Dunnersfella: Unfortunately, whoever told you this was incorrect.
Lying to a sales person to get a cheap cash / credit card price, then demanding the biggest interest free deal is possible. Of course, they could lie to you and put the price up... The latter is illegal, the former is not.
Both are unethical.
Your call I suppose.
.

I completely disagree, by offering interest free deals they MUST be willing to sell it at the cash price otherwise they are simply dressing mutton up as lamb. If they charge more for the finance deal then they are charging you for the interest free, which means that it is not "interest free" making the sale non compliant with the fair trading act. I get the feeling you think they should give a better deal on cash, if they want to do that they must then advertise the deal as low interest 2% or whatever that difference is. They do not, so then they are fair game!

I think the issue is "cash price" because that goes for everything that isn't on a interest free finance deal.

You will most likely find that if a interest free promotion is in place you will not get a whole lot of variation when trying to get the best deal from that store.

it does effect the sales persons commission / wage the lower they sell a product, and for a sales person the interest free deals will slash that margin further. when you earn 3% on Gross Profit. and a tv's base profit margin is only 7% (example) when you add a interest free period onto there you don't make a whole lot of money.

itxtme

2102 posts

Uber Geek

#720624 21-Nov-2012 10:34

I am not disputing that a cash price would be cheaper for the the retailer to offer, someone has to pay for the loan! I am saying it is illegal for a retailer to offer the goods cheaper for cash when they want to use the words "interest free". So as the poster I was replying to stated it was unethical to negotiate a better cash price, it is not. It is unethical to provide an "interest free" deal for a cost, it makes it an interest charged and hidden markup deal.

richms

28172 posts

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#720842 21-Nov-2012 16:11

I think that the interest free should only apply to the ticket price, not any subsequent negotiation.

Its as absurd as when I was buying something there was an offer of a free crappy inkjet printer. I asked if they could knock something off if I didnt take the printer and was told they couldnt because it would be illegal. Totally absurd.

Richard rich.ms

almaznz

89 posts

Master Geek

#720847 21-Nov-2012 16:14

richms: I think that the interest free should only apply to the ticket price, not any subsequent negotiation.

Its as absurd as when I was buying something there was an offer of a free crappy inkjet printer. I asked if they could knock something off if I didnt take the printer and was told they couldnt because it would be illegal. Totally absurd.

mattwnz

20147 posts

Uber Geek

#720848 21-Nov-2012 16:16

richms: I think that the interest free should only apply to the ticket price, not any subsequent negotiation.

Its as absurd as when I was buying something there was an offer of a free crappy inkjet printer. I asked if they could knock something off if I didnt take the printer and was told they couldnt because it would be illegal. Totally absurd.

I don't know what would be 'illegal' about that, apart from them telling you that it is illegal. Often the free stuff they give with something provided by the manufacturer as a bundle, so they don't actually save anything by not providing it. TIt is simialr to cashback schemes when they may offer you a free tv or something. The retailer wouldn't save anything by not providing that too you.

heavenlywild

5060 posts

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#720855 21-Nov-2012 16:29

<Camp Father> This is so off-topic. Surely this interest-free topic deserves a new thread? </Camp Father>

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek

#720862 21-Nov-2012 16:35

mattwnz:
richms: I think that the interest free should only apply to the ticket price, not any subsequent negotiation.

Its as absurd as when I was buying something there was an offer of a free crappy inkjet printer. I asked if they could knock something off if I didnt take the printer and was told they couldnt because it would be illegal. Totally absurd.

I don't know what would be 'illegal' about that, apart from them telling you that it is illegal. Often the free stuff they give with something provided by the manufacturer as a bundle, so they don't actually save anything by not providing it. TIt is simialr to cashback schemes when they may offer you a free tv or something. The retailer wouldn't save anything by not providing that too you.

Probably something to do with the fact that if they give you a discount for not taking it, then the thing isn’t genuinely ‘free’.

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richms

28172 posts

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#720871 21-Nov-2012 16:47

IMO free means they didnt jack the price up to include the item. As the ticket price at HN etc doesnt change when they have the interest free deals, then it is still free. Any seperate negotiation on that ticket price is nothing to do with the advertised price and interest free offer.

Richard rich.ms

JimmyH

2886 posts

Uber Geek

#720973 21-Nov-2012 21:01

You can usually get around the "can't discount for cash" issue with interest-free deals if you buy more than one thing. Even if the other thing is comparatively low value. Then the salesperson can claim the reduction was a package deal, not because the interest-free price really had a hidden margin for finance that they will waive for cash. I've succeeded with that approach before.

Dunnersfella

4086 posts

Uber Geek

#720986 21-Nov-2012 21:41

itxtme: I am not disputing that a cash price would be cheaper for the the retailer to offer, someone has to pay for the loan! I am saying it is illegal for a retailer to offer the goods cheaper for cash when they want to use the words "interest free". So as the poster I was replying to stated it was unethical to negotiate a better cash price, it is not. It is unethical to provide an "interest free" deal for a cost, it makes it an interest charged and hidden markup deal.

I believe it's unethical to negotiate a cash term, then switch the type of deal on the retailer and demand finance on the previously negotiated price.
I guess we have different ethics eh.

On a related note, Smiths City / Power Store offer 'EasyPay'. Which is their 'word' for interest free...
But because they don't mention the words 'EasyPay' in their advertising or sales pitch (even though it is) the sales person can offer both a cash price and a finance price.
That, is probably the approach Harvey Norman / Noel Leeming etc take. That way they can give a finance price and a cash price - meaning there will be less uncertainty and unethical sales people / consumers in the marketplace.

mattwnz

20147 posts

Uber Geek

#720998 21-Nov-2012 22:02

Dunnersfella:
itxtme: I am not disputing that a cash price would be cheaper for the the retailer to offer, someone has to pay for the loan! I am saying it is illegal for a retailer to offer the goods cheaper for cash when they want to use the words "interest free". So as the poster I was replying to stated it was unethical to negotiate a better cash price, it is not. It is unethical to provide an "interest free" deal for a cost, it makes it an interest charged and hidden markup deal.

I believe it's unethical to negotiate a cash term, then switch the type of deal on the retailer and demand finance on the previously negotiated price.
I guess we have different ethics eh.

On a related note, Smiths City / Power Store offer 'EasyPay'. Which is their 'word' for interest free...
But because they don't mention the words 'EasyPay' in their advertising or sales pitch (even though it is) the sales person can offer both a cash price and a finance price.
That, is probably the approach Harvey Norman / Noel Leeming etc take. That way they can give a finance price and a cash price - meaning there will be less uncertainty and unethical sales people / consumers in the marketplace.

I guess it depends on how you word it to them. Perhaps asking, what is the best deal you can give me on this, and saying that another store is offering it for less elsewhere, but not mention HP at all until you are negotiating the payment. I don't buy on HP so have never had to do this.
I am not really sure how ethics come into it, but I think stores that intentionally undercut other stores on price is verging on unethical too, and it is a very lazy way to sell something by undercutting, but it is all perfectly legal. But other people may have different ethics or personal standards.

Dunnersfella

4086 posts

Uber Geek

#721004 21-Nov-2012 22:20

Well I guess that's the thing...
"We'll match any competitors price AND give you FlyBuys".
Is that unethical?
Probably not.
Desperate?
Probably.

But then again using 30 months interest free deals on anything over $499 is unethical in my books...
But only if the people who take on the deal are unaware of what they're signing up for. If they know the ins and outs and are just using the finance company as revolving credit to free up cash flow / earn interest on money already in the bank... well, then it's a good deal.

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