Coffee machine recommendations?

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301 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2897496 6-Apr-2022 10:07

jonathan18:

@ShinyChrome (and any others): have you managed to perfect single shots? If so, what's the secret to your success? I've tried and failed every time I think (and so gave up ages ago); googling this clearly I'm not alone. As that thread covers, I too find the Breville single baskets are difficult to get a proper tamp, and putting in more beans to bring the grinds over that lip resulted in over-pressurising. (Indeed, it'll be interesting to know people's typical weight of beans for a single and double shot generally; I've been fitting 22g in a double shot, which may be part of the caffiene problem!) This is one of the reasons I've added decaf to the mix, as it lets me reduce caffeine intake while still pulling decent shots.

I got these from Amazon when I got my Barista Express.

The funnel really cuts down on wasted coffee with the only down-side being that I need to manually press the button to start the grind as the funnel doesn't fit under the holder on the machine.

The tamper will level the grind using one side and then you can set how deep to press the grind down on the other side. It's made for a very consistent pressure and coffee content with every cup. You would need a different tamper for single and double shot potentially though.

I actually need to re-calibrate everything as the grinder isn't producing as much grind any more but this is now 2 years after getting the machine.

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#2897614 6-Apr-2022 12:17

Totally agree about the value of a distributor, as mentioned a few pages back (link to product); one of the best coffee-related purchases I've made and I'm sure it's the main reason for way more consistent shots. I find I don't lose too many grinds so haven't bothered with a funnel. Perhaps this is due to the technique I use which is to grind in two lots, with some tamping in between; I guess this method may partially negate the value of the distributor, as it can't be used on that first tamp, but it does result in no over-flow which is probably important when weighing the beans as every gram counts!

Handle9

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#2897695 6-Apr-2022 15:02

Geektastic: That’s quite similar to ours and Sage is a much more modern branding choice than Breville.

It’s targeting the same market but it’s a much better machine. It’s a true dual boiler instead of a thermoblock and it has a much better grinder than the Delonghi. It’s also got Brevilles automatic milk steaming tech which is excellent and much better than the junk sleeve on the Delonghi.

Sage is uk branding due to another company called Breville in that market. Breville is the master brand.

ShinyChrome

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#2897719 6-Apr-2022 16:14

jonathan18:

ShinyChrome (and any others): have you managed to perfect single shots? If so, what's the secret to your success? I've tried and failed every time I think (and so gave up ages ago); googling this clearly I'm not alone. As that thread covers, I too find the Breville single baskets are difficult to get a proper tamp, and putting in more beans to bring the grinds over that lip resulted in over-pressurising. (Indeed, it'll be interesting to know people's typical weight of beans for a single and double shot generally; I've been fitting 22g in a double shot, which may be part of the caffiene problem!) This is one of the reasons I've added decaf to the mix, as it lets me reduce caffeine intake while still pulling decent shots.

I have only tried the single basket a couple of times, but I have had no real issues yet with it. I have found with the Breville baskets in general (single wall anyway) that you really need a full basket to get a good clean puck: mine has been 'round 10g in the single, 19-20g in the double for me. The out of the box tamper is not the greatest as well, something I want to change in future. Have you tried to play around with different grind sizes/tamping pressure in the single basket?

@Senecio, I believe I have seen that method called the "lazy-mans ristretto" haha... I'm currently playing around with fineness to get a ristretto ratio over a longer extraction time myself

As a random side bar, I was also reading an older post of Scott Rao's the other day on ratios and extraction if you like a bit of measurement with your coffee.

I went on a bit of splurge with accessories too: picked up a WDT, nicer set of scales, portafilter funnel, and most importantly... nice cups!

jonathan18

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#2897735 6-Apr-2022 17:24

ShinyChrome:

I have only tried the single basket a couple of times, but I have had no real issues yet with it. I have found with the Breville baskets in general (single wall anyway) that you really need a full basket to get a good clean puck: mine has been 'round 10g in the single, 19-20g in the double for me. The out of the box tamper is not the greatest as well, something I want to change in future. Have you tried to play around with different grind sizes/tamping pressure in the single basket?

@Senecio, I believe I have seen that method called the "lazy-mans ristretto" haha... I'm currently playing around with fineness to get a ristretto ratio over a longer extraction time myself

As a random side bar, I was also reading an older post of Scott Rao's the other day on ratios and extraction if you like a bit of measurement with your coffee.

I went on a bit of splurge with accessories too: picked up a WDT, nicer set of scales, portafilter funnel, and most importantly... nice cups!

I did try a few different things out with the single basket, but I wasn't making singles regularly enough to end up with something I was happy with. May well give it another go but I really don't like either drinking poorly extracted coffee or throwing it out! That said, I've what I've learnt in the last few months will help.

Yep, I'd agree Breville's supplied tamper isn't terrific; it's way better than the fully plastic thing that was supplied with the machine I have at work (a Sunbeam Mini Barista) but most options off AliExpress will be superior - looks like the one I bought cost about $30. Don't think I'd bother with the spring loaded mechanism next time, but love the wooden handle...

Handle9

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#2897754 6-Apr-2022 17:37

jonathan18:

Totally agree about the value of a distributor, as mentioned a few pages back (link to product); one of the best coffee-related purchases I've made and I'm sure it's the main reason for way more consistent shots. I find I don't lose too many grinds so haven't bothered with a funnel. Perhaps this is due to the technique I use which is to grind in two lots, with some tamping in between; I guess this method may partially negate the value of the distributor, as it can't be used on that first tamp, but it does result in no over-flow which is probably important when weighing the beans as every gram counts!

Get a dosing cup. You grind into the dosing cup then put the portafilter over the cup and turn upside down. If you give it a tap before removing the cup the dose will settle and not overflow the portafilter. It significantly reduces mess and gives a more repeatable process, especially with a distributor.

Amazon has a heap, just don't buy a 58mm dosing cup for a Brevile machine :)

Distributors are good but you still need a relatively level dose before you use the distributor other wise you end up with highly compressed areas and not so compressed areas. My workflow is grind into dosing cup, dose, level by hand, use distributor and then the hand tamper side for the final tamp. It's very repeatable and consistent, which is what I'm looking for.

everettpsycho

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#2898881 9-Apr-2022 07:49

Really tempted by the breville duo temp pro, briscoes have it on sale for $350 and from what I can see it's practically the same as the infuser other than the control dial instead of buttons, lack of water dispenser and no pressure gauge. Looks like it has both pressurized and standard baskets to graduate up to. Definitely looks a better machine than the bambino that costs more.

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Wakrak

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#2899744 11-Apr-2022 10:37

I see the Breville the Barista Express Impress (BES876BSS) is out now and Noel Leeming have come out with a $999 introductory offer (next cheapest is Heathcotes & Harvey Norman at $1198/$1199).

Breville the Barista Express Impress - Noel Leeming

everettpsycho

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#2899752 11-Apr-2022 11:05

everettpsycho: Really tempted by the breville duo temp pro, briscoes have it on sale for $350 and from what I can see it's practically the same as the infuser other than the control dial instead of buttons, lack of water dispenser and no pressure gauge. Looks like it has both pressurized and standard baskets to graduate up to. Definitely looks a better machine than the bambino that costs more.

I went to buy one of these and ended up with an infuser instead. It looked OK as a machine but just a few annoying niggly things on it like the dial being very stiff and manual timing instead of just programming a shot to a button are things I think I'd be putting up with instead of enjoying using it so was worth $150 more to not be putting up with stuff I know could be nicer.

Just made my first coffee and playing it safe with the pressurized basket as I don't think my grinder goes fine enough for the unpressurized one. Already with no effort or dialling in its a better drink than the nespresso was making even if i made it a bit in the weak side, so im optimistic it'll only get better with practice and accuracy. Now to watch the pricing on some better grinders than the old Bodum one, it worked its magic and was great for infusion brewing and highlighted how bad pre ground coffee was to us so now there's no going back.

Probably should look to sell the old nespresso one on as I can't see that ever being used again, if anything the aeropress is the better machine to fall back to.

jonathan18

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#2899757 11-Apr-2022 11:10

Handle9:

Get a dosing cup. You grind into the dosing cup then put the portafilter over the cup and turn upside down. If you give it a tap before removing the cup the dose will settle and not overflow the portafilter. It significantly reduces mess and gives a more repeatable process, especially with a distributor.

Amazon has a heap, just don't buy a 58mm dosing cup for a Brevile machine :)

Distributors are good but you still need a relatively level dose before you use the distributor other wise you end up with highly compressed areas and not so compressed areas. My workflow is grind into dosing cup, dose, level by hand, use distributor and then the hand tamper side for the final tamp. It's very repeatable and consistent, which is what I'm looking for.

Thanks, sounds like a dosing cup is worth a go, if only because it'll allow me to grind all beans at once. I've ordered one from AliExpress - these kinds of accessories I find are fine from such places; just have to be patient with delivery times.

I was wondering what you were referencing with not buying 58mm for a Breville until I was in Briscoes over the weekend - I'd forgotten their cheaper models used a 54mm portafilter. The Dual Boiler (which I have) and the Oracle/Oracle Touch (maybe other models?) use a 58mm one.

More widely, reading this thread reminded me of the importance of stopping stretching milk for any longer than needed. I've found I've recently been somewhat distracted in judging this point (either via feel or thermometer) and as a result my milk's not been fantastic. A few days of focusing on this and it's absolutely astounding what difference timing this point makes to both milk texture but, I reckon, also flavour.

jonathan18

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#2899769 11-Apr-2022 11:22

everettpsycho:

I went to buy one of these and ended up with an infuser instead. It looked OK as a machine but just a few annoying niggly things on it like the dial being very stiff and manual timing instead of just programming a shot to a button are things I think I'd be putting up with instead of enjoying using it so was worth $150 more to not be putting up with stuff I know could be nicer.

Just made my first coffee and playing it safe with the pressurized basket as I don't think my grinder goes fine enough for the unpressurized one. Already with no effort or dialling in its a better drink than the nespresso was making even if i made it a bit in the weak side, so im optimistic it'll only get better with practice and accuracy. Now to watch the pricing on some better grinders than the old Bodum one, it worked its magic and was great for infusion brewing and highlighted how bad pre ground coffee was to us so now there's no going back.

Probably should look to sell the old nespresso one on as I can't see that ever being used again, if anything the aeropress is the better machine to fall back to.

I'm sure you'll not regret spending a bit more!

One feature I like about the Breville machines is they include that pressure gauge - it really is a very useful indicator of whether you've got the settings right, so it's worthwhile watching this closely. It'll give you some idea as to whether you need to play with grind settings, tamping etc.

I think one way could be to start with weighing your beans for a shot, based on recommendations for your machine - others here could recommend a figure, but I imagine it's around 18-19g? That will give you a good starting point in managing that variable, allowing you to focus on the others like tamp.

Re grinders: could still be worth giving your current one a go at its finest setting. I've noticed, though, there are a couple of Breville SGPs on TM at the moment, which is the model which probably offers best bang for buck:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/home-living/kitchen/tea-coffee-making/coffee-grinders/listing/3546787854?bof=qcTpVmYu

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/home-living/kitchen/tea-coffee-making/coffee-grinders/listing/3545358777?bof=qcTpVmYu

There's also this Dose Control Pro model:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/home-living/kitchen/tea-coffee-making/coffee-grinders/listing/3545341391?bof=qcTpVmYu

everettpsycho

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Ultimate Geek

#2900061 11-Apr-2022 22:21

jonathan18:
I'm sure you'll not regret spending a bit more!

One feature I like about the Breville machines is they include that pressure gauge - it really is a very useful indicator of whether you've got the settings right, so it's worthwhile watching this closely. It'll give you some idea as to whether you need to play with grind settings, tamping etc.

I think one way could be to start with weighing your beans for a shot, based on recommendations for your machine - others here could recommend a figure, but I imagine it's around 18-19g? That will give you a good starting point in managing that variable, allowing you to focus on the others like tamp.

Re grinders: could still be worth giving your current one a go at its finest setting. I've noticed, though, there are a couple of Breville SGPs on TM at the moment, which is the model which probably offers best bang for buck:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/home-living/kitchen/tea-coffee-making/coffee-grinders/listing/3546787854?bof=qcTpVmYu

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/home-living/kitchen/tea-coffee-making/coffee-grinders/listing/3545358777?bof=qcTpVmYu

There's also this Dose Control Pro model:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/home-living/kitchen/tea-coffee-making/coffee-grinders/listing/3545341391?bof=qcTpVmYu

I don't think I'll regret the little bit extra, the pressure gauge is already proving useful to check what is going on inside and the hit water dispenser will be useful for Americanos, the duo I was considering just used the steam wand for hot water and looked like it would take hours to fill two cups up.

That's pretty much the plan, starting out with 18g in the double wall basket to get used to it which took 30 seconds, but I stupidly didn't measure the volume out so that's for tomorrow's coffee making fun, i think its ok and the presurized basket is doing what its designed to do making up for the grind being slightly too coarse. Once I know that's fineand I'm more used to using it I'll give the standard basket a whirl and see how it copes, but reviews of the grinder all say it can't go fine enoughto build the issue in normal baskets.

The steam wand is pretty slow to get going and steam milk, but on our good machine at work it's all over so quickly I don't feel like I can actually practice well so for now it's refreshing to have a bigger window to switch between the stages of steaming the milk and it not go too badly.

jonathan18

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#2912150 10-May-2022 09:32

Compact burr grinder - is there such a thing out there that produces a relatively fine grind (for a basic home espresso machine) and doesn't take forever?

I'd like to buy a grinder primarily to take on holiday when we also take my work-based machine, so size is really important.

There are quite a few compact models around - eg ones like this:

But from what I've read there seem to be significant problems with them - slow as heck, lack of fine graduations of coarseness (typically only five), don't go fine enough for espresso, don't last that long ...

Does anyone know whether there are other types of burr grinders that don't have these problems? Or simply a relatively compact/transportable but ok performing grinder? (The problem with most is the hopper makes them quite tall and cumbersome; I don't care about a large hopper, as I'm happy to fill every shot or two anyway.)

Thanks for any ideas.

Edit: While I've found a bunch of relatively compact grinders on Amazon (eg this, this, this), every one of them has reviews saying they don't go fine enough for espresso (confusingly, many also have some claiming the opposite!). Not too surprising given all are cheap-as for a burr grinder; but is there a decent enough model out there that's a similar height? (smallest of these is about 24cm in height.)

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#2912465 10-May-2022 19:15

jonathan18:

Compact burr grinder - is there such a thing out there that produces a relatively fine grind (for a basic home espresso machine) and doesn't take forever?

I'd like to buy a grinder primarily to take on holiday when we also take my work-based machine, so size is really important.

Have you checked out the Hario Slim Grinder - first link I found: https://www.laffare.co.nz/shop/merchandise/gifts/hario-slim-hand-grinder-2/

I have one of these, it does take a while to grind (could always pair it with a cordless drill on slow ... :-P ) and there is an art to using the handle on it.

When I did a lot of moka / stove top coffee, that's what I used. Now I have an electric grinder, It doesn't get used a lot.

For espresso ... I'm not too sure - if I'm mobile I tend to rely on moka coffee instead.

jonathan18

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#2912478 10-May-2022 19:47

Yeah, not too keen on a hand grinder due to both the time it takes and the OOS in my arms.

After more digging around, I think what I was looking for may well not exist. I've given up the hunt after buying a Breville SGP for $90 including shipping from TM tonight. Sure, it's not that compact and I'll need to box it well to transport, but I'm going to find it hard to find anything as good for that sort of money.

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