Climate Change Thread

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Ultimate Geek

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#3110859 2-Aug-2023 07:31

Rust:

On a slightly different tack, are people actively considering how they will live with climate change going forward?

For example, I would not consider purchasing oceanside property, or property that would be at risk from sea level rise, erosion or flooding. Yet waterfront property is still very popular, and expensive, here in NZ.

Look at what is happening in Florida...

kingdragonfly

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#3110863 2-Aug-2023 08:15

How woke does Florida Ron DeSantis think an organization called "Farmers Insurance" is? They are not even the first insurer to pull out. They are the fourth.

I'd argue that the insurers are protecting their share holders, and you can't get much more "make America great again."

The term "invisible hand" first appeared in Adam Smith's famous work, The Wealth of Nations, in America in 1776. It describe how free markets can incentivize companies, acting in their own self-interest, to produce what is societally necessary.

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wellygary

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#3110931 2-Aug-2023 09:25

Azzura:

Rust:

On a slightly different tack, are people actively considering how they will live with climate change going forward?

For example, I would not consider purchasing oceanside property, or property that would be at risk from sea level rise, erosion or flooding. Yet waterfront property is still very popular, and expensive, here in NZ.

Look at what is happening in Florida...

although its been happening since Cyclone Andrew in '92,

"Within a year, seven Florida-domiciled property insurers went broke and some of the largest U.S. carriers decided to pull out of Florida altogether. Remaining companies were forced to rely heavily on the reinsurance market."
https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southeast/2022/08/24/681683.htm

There is also some really dodgy laws in Florida that make insurance companies liable to pay legal costs of claimants, even if the insurance company is only found partially liable....
https://marshalldennehey.com/articles/seismic-changes-may-soon-be-coming-florida-statutes-comparative-negligence-lodestar-fee

Azzura

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#3110938 2-Aug-2023 09:50

It's not just Florida...Calif as well...also here in NZ is a risk of it happening https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/climate-crisis-thousands-of-nz-homes-risk-pulled-insurance-cover/RN7QBBYT5MXHNJPIS2FFUZB5XA/ -

Pretty sure most if not all house bank loan agreements require insurance....no insurance....they can call in your house loan.

mudguard

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#3110946 2-Aug-2023 10:17

Azzura:

Pretty sure most if not all house bank loan agreements require insurance....no insurance....they can call in your house loan.

What is slightly odd is that whilst you require insurance to get the mortgage, there's nothing stopping you from cancelling after one year, and there's no way of the bank finding out either.

You would think the bank would request proof of insurance annually or something.

SaltyNZ

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#3110948 2-Aug-2023 10:20

mudguard:

What is slightly odd is that whilst you require insurance to get the mortgage, there's nothing stopping you from cancelling after one year, and there's no way of the bank finding out either.

You would think the bank would request proof of insurance annually or something.

Bit of a dumb thing to do though - leaving yourself on the hook for an entire mortgage over a pile of rubble you can't afford to replace.

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sen8or

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#3110968 2-Aug-2023 11:25

mudguard:

Azzura:

Pretty sure most if not all house bank loan agreements require insurance....no insurance....they can call in your house loan.

What is slightly odd is that whilst you require insurance to get the mortgage, there's nothing stopping you from cancelling after one year, and there's no way of the bank finding out either.

You would think the bank would request proof of insurance annually or something.

Not correct

Banks are noted on the insurance policy as being a mortgage holder, they do receive notice of cancellation of policy. Its been a long time since I worked in banking, but following up for unpaid rates and insurance was definitely a role back then

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Varkk

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#3110974 2-Aug-2023 11:42

mudguard:

Azzura:

Pretty sure most if not all house bank loan agreements require insurance....no insurance....they can call in your house loan.

What is slightly odd is that whilst you require insurance to get the mortgage, there's nothing stopping you from cancelling after one year, and there's no way of the bank finding out either.

You would think the bank would request proof of insurance annually or something.

There is a clause in the mortgage agreement requiring you to maintain adequate insurance.

johno1234

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#3111311 3-Aug-2023 11:07

Varkk:

There is a clause in the mortgage agreement requiring you to maintain adequate insurance.

And also to provide a certificate of cover listing the bank as an interested party.

We once bought a house that was (temporarily) uninsurable - needed to be rewired and re-piled. Nobody realised this until after settlement when we went to obtain insurance. Our bank was willing to just wait a while as we remedied the issues and got the insurance sorted.

frankv

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#3111312 3-Aug-2023 11:07

Geektastic: I suspect economic reality is starting to trump idealism. This is from the Daily Telegraph:

“Rishi Sunak announced hundreds of new licences for North Sea oil and gas extraction on Monday and said Labour’s plans to end new exploration were “bad for the environment”.

The economic reality is that (according to BP) peak oil production was reached some time ago. The value of oil and gas fields will decline as oil usage declines, so sell it off now is the rational response, if you don't care about the environmental costs.

frankv

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#3111315 3-Aug-2023 11:22

evilengineer:

Geektastic: It’s as impartial as any other MSM source.

No it isn't.

Have you ever tried reading it?

It's the home of right wing libertarian commentary and contraryism.

There's things in there that would make David Seymour blush.

It's no more impartial on the subject of global warming than it is on the subject of Brexit, no doubt still trying to tell everyone that both are actually a good thing.

I think he means that the rest of MSM isn't impartial either. The right claim that everything except Fox News is lefty government-sponsored propaganda, whereas the left claim that Fox News is right-wing corparatist oligarchy propaganda. For once I agree with @Geektastic... the only difference between left & right on this issue is where you draw the line between truth and propaganda.

mkissin

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#3111317 3-Aug-2023 11:27

mudguard:

What is slightly odd is that whilst you require insurance to get the mortgage, there's nothing stopping you from cancelling after one year, and there's no way of the bank finding out either.

You would think the bank would request proof of insurance annually or something.

Absolutely not true.

I have switched home insurance companies several times over the lkast few years and forgotten to add the mortgaging bank (ANZ) as an interested party a couple of times. Both times the bank got in touch with me to check.

MikeAqua

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#3111319 3-Aug-2023 11:32

Rust:

On a slightly different tack, are people actively considering how they will live with climate change going forward?

For example, I would not consider purchasing oceanside property, or property that would be at risk from sea level rise, erosion or flooding. Yet waterfront property is still very popular, and expensive, here in NZ.

Are people considering how prepared they are for frequent extreme weather, power or food supply issues?

I personally think these are important issues. Cyclone Gabriel certainly showed me where I was lacking in preparedness, and it will only get worse from here.

Curious to know if this is something people are thinking about.

I'm currently but halfway through designing a house, to build on some land that we own.

I'm designing in a lot of resilience features: -

Booze: In-ground wine cellar.

Site: Moderately elevated but flat, arid area, not near a river, note near large stands of vegetation very bony soil, space to construct ponds at two elevations

Blackout: Generators, large fuel tank, lots of solar, and batteries. Plenty of LPG on site.

Fire: Mostly metal joinery. Two large and tree-shaded water storage ponds, generator, pumps and rooftop/under-eave sprinklers. Lawn kept mowed and watered. Mesh screened vents. Planar roof geometry, with minimal roof protrusions. Also, a fire mitigation planting plan

Storm: High volume guttering, water storage in lower pond, high slope roof, block walls, high wind zone design. Considering external shutters/louvres, or at least provision for installation.

Water: Own supplies - bore, ponds (filter and boil water).

Sewage: Own treatment system

Food: We keep a lot of tinned, dried and frozen food as a general habit, vege-garden, fruit trees, tunnel houses. Generally we would have enough for a couple of months of food at three meals a day. I thought about fish in the ponds but anything that would survive is considered noxious. I thought about a few livestock, but I can't be bothered. We'll probably have a few chooks and ducks. There are plenty of wild rabbits, although they aren't actually very nourishing.

Criminals: Security systems on property for advanced warning. Cameras.

Something we thought about, and rejected was a tornado shelter/safe room. It just seems very unlikely that we would need it.

Mike

johno1234

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#3111451 3-Aug-2023 14:44

My monthly Z Fuel card invoice just rolled in. Zero fuel purchased in the last month. Averaging less than one visit to a gas station per month over the last quarter.

Lots of work from home these days, and I expect many people are the same.

johno1234

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#3111452 3-Aug-2023 14:47

MikeAqua:

Rust:

On a slightly different tack, are people actively considering how they will live with climate change going forward?

For example, I would not consider purchasing oceanside property, or property that would be at risk from sea level rise, erosion or flooding. Yet waterfront property is still very popular, and expensive, here in NZ.

Are people considering how prepared they are for frequent extreme weather, power or food supply issues?

I personally think these are important issues. Cyclone Gabriel certainly showed me where I was lacking in preparedness, and it will only get worse from here.

Curious to know if this is something people are thinking about.

I'm currently but halfway through designing a house, to build on some land that we own.

I'm designing in a lot of resilience features: -

Booze: In-ground wine cellar.

Site: Moderately elevated but flat, arid area, not near a river, note near large stands of vegetation very bony soil, space to construct ponds at two elevations

Blackout: Generators, large fuel tank, lots of solar, and batteries. Plenty of LPG on site.

Fire: Mostly metal joinery. Two large and tree-shaded water storage ponds, generator, pumps and rooftop/under-eave sprinklers. Lawn kept mowed and watered. Mesh screened vents. Planar roof geometry, with minimal roof protrusions. Also, a fire mitigation planting plan

Storm: High volume guttering, water storage in lower pond, high slope roof, block walls, high wind zone design. Considering external shutters/louvres, or at least provision for installation.

Water: Own supplies - bore, ponds (filter and boil water).

Sewage: Own treatment system

Food: We keep a lot of tinned, dried and frozen food as a general habit, vege-garden, fruit trees, tunnel houses. Generally we would have enough for a couple of months of food at three meals a day. I thought about fish in the ponds but anything that would survive is considered noxious. I thought about a few livestock, but I can't be bothered. We'll probably have a few chooks and ducks. There are plenty of wild rabbits, although they aren't actually very nourishing.

Criminals: Security systems on property for advanced warning. Cameras.

Something we thought about, and rejected was a tornado shelter/safe room. It just seems very unlikely that we would need it.

Good to see booze at the top. As long as you have plenty, everything else becomes way more tolerable.

I think you should have something in there under "Zombie Apocalypse" though.

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