Child free by choice or otherwise

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MileHighKiwi

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#1993079 11-Apr-2018 08:02

gehenna: My personal experience as a manager is my staff with children are the worst at going into overages with annual and sick leave, and don't make themselves available outside of business hours. My single staff are super dedicated and motivated to the point where I need to encourage them to use leave, and I know they can be counted on for the odd job outside business hours.

I will add I always remunerate or give time in lieu for that kind of outside hours work. I'm merely commenting on my differences of experience with @DaveB

What sort of work do you do? I'm in banking in a team of about 25 and two thirds have kids. Many, including myself, have had quite a bit of time off in the past year due to kids sickness, but thankfully we have a very supportive management team who say family first, then work.

Because of that attitude it's not uncommon to see a colleague who rushed off at 2pm for a sick kid working at 11pm or over the weekend making up the time. Our team is mature and we manage our own time and can work remotely.

Obviously not every workplace can operate like that but I'm grateful that my employer supports families.

Rikkitic

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#1994080 11-Apr-2018 09:10

DaveB:

My best friend is gay, so don't bother trying to bait me there. He would actually be a good business partner but is even more opinionated than me. I don't have time for Christianity either, so try another angle.

Not trying to bait you, just seeking clarification. People who espouse 'family values' are often christian conservatives who also tend to disapprove of gay ~~choices~~ lifestyles.

Edit: Poor word choice. Being gay is not a choice, though being open about it can be.

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freitasm

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#1994084 11-Apr-2018 09:17

Rikkitic:

DaveB:

My best friend is gay, so don't bother trying to bait me there. He would actually be a good business partner but is even more opinionated than me. I don't have time for Christianity either, so try another angle.

Not trying to bait you, just seeking clarification. People who espouse 'family values' are often christian conservatives who also tend to disapprove of gay choices.

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MikeAqua

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#1994117 11-Apr-2018 09:47

MileHighKiwi:
gehenna: My personal experience as a manager is my staff with children are the worst at going into overages with annual and sick leave, and don't make themselves available outside of business hours. My single staff are super dedicated and motivated to the point where I need to encourage them to use leave, and I know they can be counted on for the odd job outside business hours.

I will add I always remunerate or give time in lieu for that kind of outside hours work. I'm merely commenting on my differences of experience with @DaveB

What sort of work do you do? I'm in banking in a team of about 25 and two thirds have kids. Many, including myself, have had quite a bit of time off in the past year due to kids sickness, but thankfully we have a very supportive management team who say family first, then work.

Because of that attitude it's not uncommon to see a colleague who rushed off at 2pm for a sick kid working at 11pm or over the weekend making up the time. Our team is mature and we manage our own time and can work remotely.

Obviously not every workplace can operate like that but I'm grateful that my employer supports families.

I would generally concur with MileHigh's comments. A single employee has the most flexibility.

Add a partner and availability and flexibility decreasse, add kids and they decrease further. Most people with those commitments are smart enough to recognise that they need to plan work-flow carefully, focus hard at work and keep a little ahead of the ball. If they suddenly need time off, they have a little bit of breathing room.

By contrast single people can rely on putting in a weekend or all-nighter if occasionally required.

As I said in an earlier post most professional people adjust their work patterns to fit their commitments and find ways to deliver.

I've always taken a flexible and outcome based approach (within reason) to hours and place of work. This is with the exception of weekly team meetings at which attendance is expected (unless on leave or travelling for work). Very few people have given me cause to regret this approach.

Mike

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#1994119 11-Apr-2018 09:48

I have a family and never had problem with pulling an all-nighter, or travels.

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kryptonjohn

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#1994152 11-Apr-2018 10:18

freitasm:

I have a family and never had problem with pulling an all-nighter, or travels.

Same. But I'm lucky to have a supportive spouse who doesn't have a job (by that I mean employment BTW!).

If you have two candidates in front of you for a job, and one is single and child free and the other is a solo parent of school age children, which would you favour (all else being equal)? The one that really, *really* needs the job? The solo parent will have no flexibility and will need time off whenever a child is sick and have issues on school holidays. That parent is at a huge disadvantage.

Being a solo parent would be such a tough gig. I don't know how I would cope but people do. Such is the adaptability of the human being.

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MikeAqua

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#1994156 11-Apr-2018 10:21

freitasm:

I have a family and never had problem with pulling an all-nighter, or travels.

It depends on your family circumstances.

For example for single parents or employees whose partners also travel it can be difficult. For example someone I worked with was married to a long haul pilot and had two kids under 5. Overnight travel wasn't an option and there had to be a plan B for the kids to cover flight disruptions for day trips.

Being flexible solves most of these issues and people seem to value and appreciate flexibility so there is payback for the employer in workplace culture.

Mike

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#1994174 11-Apr-2018 10:49

MileHighKiwi:
gehenna: My personal experience as a manager is my staff with children are the worst at going into overages with annual and sick leave, and don't make themselves available outside of business hours. My single staff are super dedicated and motivated to the point where I need to encourage them to use leave, and I know they can be counted on for the odd job outside business hours.

I will add I always remunerate or give time in lieu for that kind of outside hours work. I'm merely commenting on my differences of experience with @DaveB

What sort of work do you do? I'm in banking in a team of about 25 and two thirds have kids. Many, including myself, have had quite a bit of time off in the past year due to kids sickness, but thankfully we have a very supportive management team who say family first, then work.

Because of that attitude it's not uncommon to see a colleague who rushed off at 2pm for a sick kid working at 11pm or over the weekend making up the time. Our team is mature and we manage our own time and can work remotely.

Obviously not every workplace can operate like that but I'm grateful that my employer supports families.

The rarely recognised thing in that scenario is the one third of the staff with no children who rarely (IME) get granted any equivalent leniency with regard to time off etc and are often expected simply to be the uncomplaining donkeys who will cover when the ones with children need to be absent...!

MileHighKiwi

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#1994250 11-Apr-2018 12:49

Geektastic:

MileHighKiwi:
gehenna: My personal experience as a manager is my staff with children are the worst at going into overages with annual and sick leave, and don't make themselves available outside of business hours. My single staff are super dedicated and motivated to the point where I need to encourage them to use leave, and I know they can be counted on for the odd job outside business hours.

I will add I always remunerate or give time in lieu for that kind of outside hours work. I'm merely commenting on my differences of experience with @DaveB

What sort of work do you do? I'm in banking in a team of about 25 and two thirds have kids. Many, including myself, have had quite a bit of time off in the past year due to kids sickness, but thankfully we have a very supportive management team who say family first, then work.

Because of that attitude it's not uncommon to see a colleague who rushed off at 2pm for a sick kid working at 11pm or over the weekend making up the time. Our team is mature and we manage our own time and can work remotely.

Obviously not every workplace can operate like that but I'm grateful that my employer supports families.

The rarely recognised thing in that scenario is the one third of the staff with no children who rarely (IME) get granted any equivalent leniency with regard to time off etc and are often expected simply to be the uncomplaining donkeys who will cover when the ones with children need to be absent...!

You're equating caring for children as taking 'time off' work, but what if the work can be done remotely at any time of the day, as is the case in my workplace? Just because you're not in the office doesn't mean you can't do the work at a time more suitable to your personal situation.

MikeAqua

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#1994252 11-Apr-2018 13:00

MileHighKiwi:

You're equating caring for children as taking 'time off' work, but what if the work can be done remotely at any time of the day, as is the case in my workplace? Just because you're not in the office doesn't mean you can't do the work at a time more suitable to your personal situation.

It depends on the role. I have had roles where I was expected to cover for team-mates who had to take time of for family commitments by taking extra shifts or extra responsibilities (temporarily). Some roles require on location work.

Mike

gehenna

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#1994257 11-Apr-2018 13:25

Don't get me wrong, my comment about what I've observed in terms of sick/annual leave isn't be begrudging one type of employee over another, I try to be supportive in both cases. It's just something I've recognised in my staff and their personal circumstances, so as a manager it's something I need to be aware of in terms of how I allocate resources to work.

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dejadeadnz

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#1994432 11-Apr-2018 20:47

DaveB:

Common sense and Law do not go hand in hand. Much like common sense and logic. Common sense can also be negatively equated to vulgar prejudice. It all depends on which side of the fence you choose to pick from.

Here's news for you: you're subject to the laws of NZ. Either get a grip and obey the law or, from my personal POV, businesses like yours can't go bust quick enough.

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