Should New Zealand invest in nuclear power plants?

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Awrrr
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#3228991 11-May-2024 12:20

I am not an engineer, technician, or anything else that qualifies me to have an informed opinion on this matter. I am just a simple pensioner who wants to live out my days with a reasonable quality of life.

To my inexpert opinion, nuclear power as it currently exists seems like a step backwards. It is looking to the past promises of the 1950s and 60s, when the atomic age was going to give us all unlimited free electricity. It makes me think of the Jetsons.

The future is further development of zero carbon technologies like wind and solar and bio-fuel and better methods of power storage. It is fusion. Maybe it is satellites in space beaming microwave energy down. It is not fission reactors generating radioactive toxicity that will endure for millennia. Where are we going to put all the shit if everyone is producing it? This is an admittedly emotional response on my part, because I don’t possess the knowledge to properly assess this. All I can say is how I feel about it, and I feel that the idea stinks so my vote will go to whoever opposes it.

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tweake

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#3228993 11-May-2024 12:28

freitasm:

tweake:

i think the cost is more of a perception and cultural issue rather than a real money issue.

It is a real money issue. As I posted before in this thread, we just finished painting the whole house outside (stripping down to the wood) and replacing the roof.

This cost was in the high five figures alone.

If we put a solar energy solution it would push the cost into low six figures.

We have to keep living, pay for our kid's studies and there is no way we would be able to afford that now.

Perhaps revisit in a couple of years, now that the roof is a new one.

thats repair not new build and its not insulation.

usa its only 4% more to build a passive house. might allow 10% for nz. but we are not talking going as high as passive house standards, so really we are talking 1-3% more. now factor that over 50+ years, its dirt cheap. its far cheaper than solar panels will ever be as they will be replaced multiple times in the house's lifespan where as insulation doesn't.

the reason its a perception problem is because we are going from such a low low standard to a normal standard. (its not like we are going from normal to better). its a big jump which seams expensive. its like when petrol prices first jumped up, people panicked and sold off big cars and bought new small cars (at rather high prices). now the fuel price is even worse, they are back to driving big cars. people get used to the cost.

tweake

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#3228994 11-May-2024 12:36

freitasm:

It is a real money issue. As I posted before in this thread, we just finished painting the whole house outside (stripping down to the wood) and replacing the roof.

metal roof? which is common for nz.

whats interesting is that in usa bitumen tiles are dirt cheap "disposable" roofing, metal is a high end product and is expensive. interestingly bitumen tiles in nz is considered high end.

metal roofs are expensive but they last 50+ years where as bitumen tiles you would be regularly replacing them. so a metal roof is high cost but it last 50+ years so its fairly cheap in the long run. people think its expensive because they won't be in the house for 50 years. thats why its a perception issue.

freitasm

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#3228997 11-May-2024 12:40

tweake:

freitasm:

tweake:

i think the cost is more of a perception and cultural issue rather than a real money issue.

It is a real money issue. As I posted before in this thread, we just finished painting the whole house outside (stripping down to the wood) and replacing the roof.

This cost was in the high five figures alone.

If we put a solar energy solution it would push the cost into low six figures.

We have to keep living, pay for our kid's studies and there is no way we would be able to afford that now.

Perhaps revisit in a couple of years, now that the roof is a new one.

thats repair not new build and its not insulation.

Paint and new roof are repair as your say? Correct.

But installing solar panels, batteries, water storage cost money, it doesn't matter if it's for a new house or an existing house.

Your first reply didn't make a distinction and I responded to the exact quote "i think the cost is more of a perception and cultural issue rather than a real money issue."

We had to prioritize. I could do new roof and solar panels, or new roof and painting but not both.

freitasm

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#3228999 11-May-2024 12:41

tweake:

freitasm:

It is a real money issue. As I posted before in this thread, we just finished painting the whole house outside (stripping down to the wood) and replacing the roof.

metal roof? which is common for nz.

whats interesting is that in usa bitumen tiles are dirt cheap "disposable" roofing, metal is a high end product and is expensive. interestingly bitumen tiles in nz is considered high end.

metal roofs are expensive but they last 50+ years where as bitumen tiles you would be regularly replacing them. so a metal roof is high cost but it last 50+ years so its fairly cheap in the long run. people think its expensive because they won't be in the house for 50 years. thats why its a perception issue.

We have already been in this house for 18 years. I think we will probably have it for a few more years.

I would suggest you don't generalise without knowing the conditions.

gzt

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#3229000 11-May-2024 12:41

freitasm: It is a real money issue.

One model offered by Solar Zero provides all the installation and hardware including battery replacements on a subscription model. That's one way into it. I have not looked into it. I don't see a calculator on the site.

https://solarzero.co.nz/get-solar/solar-subscription

I expect that will get better overall if the government makes some adjustments to make a better peak market for it. On the buy side you're probably aware all the major banks offer 0% or 1% mortgage extras for solar. I get there's an equity balance, house sale considerations etc, preference to use the same for a vehicle etc. Not easy or simple most of the time for many people.

Dingbatt

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#3229001 11-May-2024 12:42

Rikkitic:

I am not an engineer, technician, or anything else that qualifies me to have an informed opinion on this matter. I am just a simple pensioner who wants to live out my days with a reasonable quality of life.

To my inexpert opinion, nuclear power as it currently exists seems like a step backwards. It is looking to the past promises of the 1950s and 60s, when the atomic age was going to give us all unlimited free electricity. It makes me think of the Jetsons.

The future is further development of zero carbon technologies like wind and solar and bio-fuel and better methods of power storage. It is fusion. Maybe it is satellites in space beaming microwave energy down. It is not fission reactors generating radioactive toxicity that will endure for millennia. Where are we going to put all the shit if everyone is producing it? This is an admittedly emotional response on my part, because I don’t possess the knowledge to properly assess this. All I can say is how I feel about it, and I feel that the idea stinks so my vote will go to whoever opposes it.

As long as you are willing to live out your days in energy poverty, you’ll be fine.

You don’t need to be an engineer or technician to be informed on this subject. You just need to read something other than the fear porn produced by certain organisations and then parroted by a scientifically illiterate media.

And why would you vote for someone purely on the basis that they oppose something you confess to not understand?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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gzt

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#3229005 11-May-2024 13:03

Dingbatt: No one was killed by radiation exposure, and projections of excess cancer from accumulated exposure are negligible” (Wikipedia entry : Dhoku Earthquake and Tsunami- Damage and Effects).

Incorrect. One worker died from lung cancer several years later as a direct and accepted result of the failure. It will take a longer period of time to know how other workers were/are affected.

The surrounding population I'm not sure if there is a study project but obviously that's a statistical effort and will take years before the result is known.

Your post also fails to mention the cost of the ongoing cleanup and management of the failed reactors. This Nikkei Asia article indicates TEPCO is spending US$7 billion a year in cleanup on the site. If that sounds high - it is because the initial estimate was pathetically low and the actual real cost is far far higher, every year.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#3229007 11-May-2024 13:05

Dingbatt:

As long as you are willing to live out your days in energy poverty, you’ll be fine.

You don’t need to be an engineer or technician to be informed on this subject. You just need to read something other than the fear porn produced by certain organisations and then parroted by a scientifically illiterate media.

And why would you vote for someone purely on the basis that they oppose something you confess to not understand?

I read plenty. I also defer to the judgement of those who know more than I do. When an entire country like Germany decides to abandon nuclear power, I imagine they have a good reason and am certainly happy to add my vote to that.

Sweeping generalisations about ‘fear porn’ and ‘certain organisations’ and ‘scientifically illiterate media’ don’t say a thing. If you have a point to make beyond just putting me down, then make it.

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tweake

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#3229011 11-May-2024 13:32

gzt:
freitasm: It is a real money issue.

One model offered by Solar Zero provides all the installation and hardware including battery replacements on a subscription model. That's one way into it. I have not looked into it. I don't see a calculator on the site.

https://solarzero.co.nz/get-solar/solar-subscription

I expect that will get better overall if the government makes some adjustments to make a better peak market for it. On the buy side you're probably aware all the major banks offer 0% or 1% mortgage extras for solar. I get there's an equity balance, house sale considerations etc, preference to use the same for a vehicle etc. Not easy or simple most of the time for many people.

be careful of those. there was a company that started doing that, your tied into a contract that they buy your power but you have to buy power from them. but then they change the price to suit them and your back to square one.

freitasm

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#3229012 11-May-2024 13:38

tweake:

gzt:
freitasm: It is a real money issue.

One model offered by Solar Zero provides all the installation and hardware including battery replacements on a subscription model. That's one way into it. I have not looked into it. I don't see a calculator on the site.

https://solarzero.co.nz/get-solar/solar-subscription

I expect that will get better overall if the government makes some adjustments to make a better peak market for it. On the buy side you're probably aware all the major banks offer 0% or 1% mortgage extras for solar. I get there's an equity balance, house sale considerations etc, preference to use the same for a vehicle etc. Not easy or simple most of the time for many people.

be careful of those. there was a company that started doing that, your tied into a contract that they buy your power but you have to buy power from them. but then they change the price to suit them and your back to square one.

tweake is right. There are some... "good" offerings out there.

I read about Solarzero before. They offer $0 install but you get tied to a 25 year contract. Also, if you sell the house, the new owners have to take over the remainder of the term, or you have to pay the balance.

tweake

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#3229015 11-May-2024 13:43

freitasm:

We have already been in this house for 18 years. I think we will probably have it for a few more years.

I would suggest you don't generalise without knowing the conditions.

sorry but its always generalized, every house is different. unfortunately using a repair as an example is not very good.

small story, back in 90's when i was working on homes i had builders/owners complaining about having to install insulation (Auckland). insulation is not very expensive and no one would want a uninsulated new house today. yet southland builders are complaining about the increase in insulation cost due to the new rules. no complaints from Auckland where its a minor cost, just southland because their standards where so low its a big jump in cost. you never saw them being happy about building cheap before the rules came in. perception of cost.

also if you reno a house and install insulation into an old house, how much does that increase the house value? $0. people often don't perceive it as an advantage (tho thats starting to change), hence a lot of reno's ignore insulation. plenty of reno stories on stuff etc where they never mention the insulation. buyers don't think its worth anything so reno guys don't do it. perception and culture.

tweake

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#3229020 11-May-2024 13:50

freitasm:

tweake is right. There are some... "good" offerings out there.

I read about Solarzero before. They offer $0 install but you get tied to a 25 year contract. Also, if you sell the house, the new owners have to take over the remainder of the term, or you have to pay the balance.

Read more here SolarZero: is it worth it? - Consumer NZ

"We can’t think of many examples of things you bolt to your home that don’t really belong to you."

thats an interesting thing. thats something sky tv ran foul of in its early days. anything bolted to a house becomes property of the home owner and gets transferred with the house or sold off by the home owner. sky wants aerial/dish left on the house so its cheap to reconnect the next person. but many people took them off to make the house look better for resale or sell them.

Handle9

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#3229039 11-May-2024 15:00

Rikkitic:

When an entire country like Germany decides to abandon nuclear power, I imagine they have a good reason and am certainly happy to add my vote to that.

The reason is politics.

The effect is Germany has damaged the envornment, are failing to meet their climate targets, made their electricity incredibly expensive and still use nuclear generated power because they have to buy it from France. They are also chronically under reporting the emisions of their coal (some estimates are 84x). It's a mess.

mattwnz

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#3229040 11-May-2024 15:12

tweake:

be careful of those. there was a company that started doing that, your tied into a contract that they buy your power but you have to buy power from them. but then they change the price to suit them and your back to square one.

I looked at a house that had such a contract and solar install. It totally put me off it and the house took ages to sell, and that was during the boom times of 2020-21. It ended up selling for a lot less than I expected. At least you should be given the option of buying out of the contract if you plan on selling, so the sale doesn't get affected. Solar systems in NZ also seem so expensive when compared to overseas. Also many houses in NZ have trees surround the house for natural shading of house. But they can really affect the amount of power you get out of your solar panels, even if you just get a tiny bit of shading. EVVBlog has done videos on his experiences https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbxHoQF4ADk

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