Changing of our flag , Yes or No.

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#1449335 12-Dec-2015 19:43

networkn:
There are DOZENS of projects every year that cost considerably more than $17m that result in less or equally non productive outcomes.

Or you could say, there are DOZENS of projects every year that cost considerably less $17m that result in way more productive outcomes ...

Geektastic

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#1449462 13-Dec-2015 00:21

tdgeek: I agree James and a good point. Much of the cost will re circulate into the economy by way of wages earned, services provided by the private sector, and an amount of the private to public money movements will be spent by the earners in the economy.

I like the flag.

1. It seperates us from Australia, a very similar flag
2. Black is NZ's icon colour, fern is not as iconic as the kiwi but its close. Southern Cross shows some link to the old flag.

New flag? No. Its an update to the old flag, removing Union Jack, adding NZ fern and black colour to make it a NZ flag not a Commonwealth flag

Everyone claims the fern is "iconic" but is it really?

I was 38 when I moved here. I'm fairly well educated and of above average intelligence. Yet if you'd shown me a fern before I moved here and asked what country it reminded me of, I would have said "Sorry, no idea."

It may be iconic to new zealanders but don't kid yourself it carries immediate association anywhere else.

farcus

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#1449485 13-Dec-2015 02:39

Geektastic:
I was 38 when I moved here. I'm fairly well educated and of above average intelligence.

hmmmm . . .
The fact that you make this statement raises some ????

Yet if you'd shown me a fern before I moved here and asked what country it reminded me of, I would have said "Sorry, no idea."

It may be iconic to new zealanders but don't kid yourself it carries immediate association anywhere else.

whether it is iconic to anyone outside of NZ is irrelevant. It ONLY needs to be iconic to New Zealanders

networkn

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#1449487 13-Dec-2015 02:51

Geektastic:
tdgeek: I agree James and a good point. Much of the cost will re circulate into the economy by way of wages earned, services provided by the private sector, and an amount of the private to public money movements will be spent by the earners in the economy.

I like the flag.

1. It seperates us from Australia, a very similar flag
2. Black is NZ's icon colour, fern is not as iconic as the kiwi but its close. Southern Cross shows some link to the old flag.

New flag? No. Its an update to the old flag, removing Union Jack, adding NZ fern and black colour to make it a NZ flag not a Commonwealth flag

Everyone claims the fern is "iconic" but is it really?

I was 38 when I moved here. I'm fairly well educated and of above average intelligence. Yet if you'd shown me a fern before I moved here and asked what country it reminded me of, I would have said "Sorry, no idea."

It may be iconic to new zealanders but don't kid yourself it carries immediate association anywhere else.

Unsure of your age, but I am guessing you have been here at least 10-15 years.

I'd suggest in the past 10-15 years the Fern has become very well known because of the punching above our weight in a fair number of sports. The AB's have been completely dominant and I'd say in my past 10 years of travels, NZ and the fern are a lot more indentified in places like the USA/UK/Canada/Asia Pacific.

Beyond that, the flag needs to mean something to ME, which the current offering and the new offering do, which is enough.

michael001

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#1449521 13-Dec-2015 05:52

The flag selected is exactly what one would expect from the process. I think it looks cheap, unprofessional and most embarrassingly, not a flag.

That aside, I look around my home office now and I see many items carrying an image of the New Zealand flag. Items that would require replacement should the flag change. I think a flag change, would cost me personally in excess of $500.

Looking towards business, the cost of the change alone will be measured in several development iterations - conservatively, that's about $60K. That's without changing a lick of printed material around the office.

So if I now consider just one item at a national level - the NZ drivers licence bears the NZ flag. What would be the actual cost to the taxpayer for change there?

Two things are absolutely certain for me:

I will be voting in the next flag vote.
I will be voting for no change.

I am hoping enough people feel the same way.

tdgeek

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#1449534 13-Dec-2015 07:55

michael001: The flag selected is exactly what one would expect from the process. I think it looks cheap, unprofessional and most embarrassingly, not a flag.

That aside, I look around my home office now and I see many items carrying an image of the New Zealand flag. Items that would require replacement should the flag change. I think a flag change, would cost me personally in excess of $500.

Looking towards business, the cost of the change alone will be measured in several development iterations - conservatively, that's about $60K. That's without changing a lick of printed material around the office.

So if I now consider just one item at a national level - the NZ drivers licence bears the NZ flag. What would be the actual cost to the taxpayer for change there?

Two things are absolutely certain for me:

I will be voting in the next flag vote.
I will be voting for no change.

I am hoping enough people feel the same way.

So your vote is based on money. ok. Drivers Licence. I doubt we will all have to renew. Next renewal we get the updated flag on it. Stationery. Re branding or changing the logo happens in business. In the case of the flag, I doubt there will be a "you must assimilate" now. If the go live date is say 1 Jan 2017, there is ample time to manage stationery stocks, run them down. More like 2018 or 2019.

Pity that a national piece of our country is reduced to dollars and cents

tdgeek

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#1449535 13-Dec-2015 08:03

networkn:
Geektastic:
tdgeek: I agree James and a good point. Much of the cost will re circulate into the economy by way of wages earned, services provided by the private sector, and an amount of the private to public money movements will be spent by the earners in the economy.

I like the flag.

1. It seperates us from Australia, a very similar flag
2. Black is NZ's icon colour, fern is not as iconic as the kiwi but its close. Southern Cross shows some link to the old flag.

New flag? No. Its an update to the old flag, removing Union Jack, adding NZ fern and black colour to make it a NZ flag not a Commonwealth flag

Everyone claims the fern is "iconic" but is it really?

I was 38 when I moved here. I'm fairly well educated and of above average intelligence. Yet if you'd shown me a fern before I moved here and asked what country it reminded me of, I would have said "Sorry, no idea."

It may be iconic to new zealanders but don't kid yourself it carries immediate association anywhere else.

Unsure of your age, but I am guessing you have been here at least 10-15 years.

I'd suggest in the past 10-15 years the Fern has become very well known because of the punching above our weight in a fair number of sports. The AB's have been completely dominant and I'd say in my past 10 years of travels, NZ and the fern are a lot more indentified in places like the USA/UK/Canada/Asia Pacific.

Beyond that, the flag needs to mean something to ME, which the current offering and the new offering do, which is enough.

Well put.

How does the current flag represent NZ? Union Jack, which is our legacy, but not our current being. And Like Oz. Colours, same as Oz. Southern Cross, same as OZ, almost. We don't have a flag, we have Australia's flag, a much larger, more well known country, where our sports people are merged with Oz in the eyes of many in the world.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

tdgeek

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#1449536 13-Dec-2015 08:07

michael001: The flag selected is exactly what one would expect from the process. I think it looks cheap, unprofessional and most embarrassingly, not a flag.

That aside, I look around my home office now and I see many items carrying an image of the New Zealand flag. Items that would require replacement should the flag change. I think a flag change, would cost me personally in excess of $500.

Looking towards business, the cost of the change alone will be measured in several development iterations - conservatively, that's about $60K. That's without changing a lick of printed material around the office.

So if I now consider just one item at a national level - the NZ drivers licence bears the NZ flag. What would be the actual cost to the taxpayer for change there?

Two things are absolutely certain for me:

I will be voting in the next flag vote.
I will be voting for no change.

I am hoping enough people feel the same way.

The Canadian flag looks cheap, two boring colours, and a leaf. But its not, its a flag that represents Canada, their national colour and icon.
Ours is similar in that black is there, fern is there, and the Southern Cross is a link to our old flag IMO. Its not a new flag, its a 21st century update. A flag needs to represent the country, not the UK and 4 stars which to many outside of NZ is just 4 stars

Rikkitic

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#1449576 13-Dec-2015 10:17

Personally I would rather dump the queen than the flag. There would be more value in that. We could have a president, get rid of those silly knighthoods, make Charlie and Cam come as normal tourists and pay their way like everyone else. Now that would be productive.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

scuwp

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#1449581 13-Dec-2015 10:41

Rikkitic: Personally I would rather dump the queen than the flag. There would be more value in that. We could have a president, get rid of those silly knighthoods, make Charlie and Cam come as normal tourists and pay their way like everyone else. Now that would be productive.

It would also be a legitimate and prudent time to update the flag. Until then....

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

nakedmolerat

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#1449583 13-Dec-2015 10:51

I don't see the point of changing the flag when we will be joining Australia at some point anyway.

tdgeek

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#1449585 13-Dec-2015 10:59

How does the current flag represent NZ?

dclegg

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#1449586 13-Dec-2015 11:06

sidefx: I wasn't a big fan of red peak either and disliked the way it got added... but I will say one thing about it - it does scale nicely. Even the slight downscaling on that preliminary results page makes almost all the choices except red peak look like jaggy pixelated messes (though whoever resized them did a particularly bad job and jpeg...) Whereas red peak looks decent and identifiable even very small:

(sorry this has probably been hashed out elsewhere already but it was very noticable to me on that results page)

I wasn't a fan either, but I came around once it was explained, along with explanations of what makes a good flag. And that's why it never really stood a chance. It was up against two nearly identical flags that contained the Silver Fern that Kiwi's know and love, and the Southern Cross design lifted from our current flag. That symbology, and what it means, is easily identifiable.

But in my opinion, it looks far more like a corporate logo than a flag. So I'll definitely be voting to keep our existing one. I was actually seriously considering voting for a change to Red Peak, if it had won this round.

tdgeek

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#1449587 13-Dec-2015 11:19

dclegg:
sidefx: I wasn't a big fan of red peak either and disliked the way it got added... but I will say one thing about it - it does scale nicely. Even the slight downscaling on that preliminary results page makes almost all the choices except red peak look like jaggy pixelated messes (though whoever resized them did a particularly bad job and jpeg...) Whereas red peak looks decent and identifiable even very small:

(sorry this has probably been hashed out elsewhere already but it was very noticable to me on that results page)

I wasn't a fan either, but I came around once it was explained, along with explanations of what makes a good flag. And that's why it never really stood a chance. It was up against two nearly identical flags that contained the Silver Fern that Kiwi's know and love, and the Southern Cross design lifted from our current flag. That symbology, and what it means, is easily identifiable.

But in my opinion, it looks far more like a corporate logo than a flag. So I'll definitely be voting to keep our existing one. I was actually seriously considering voting for a change to Red Peak, if it had won this round.

I found Red Peak to be logo like. Simple, like a logo is. Doesnt really say much about what country it could be representing

dafman

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#1449589 13-Dec-2015 11:19

networkn:
I'd suggest in the past 10-15 years the Fern has become very well known because of the punching above our weight in a fair number of sports. The AB's have been completely dominant and I'd say in my past 10 years of travels, NZ and the fern are a lot more indentified in places like the USA/UK/Canada/Asia Pacific.

Beyond that, the flag needs to mean something to ME, which the current offering and the new offering do, which is enough.

And for all those NZ'ers who don't love sport, does the silver fern have the same affection? Is a country is more than just one large rugby team?

I'd love a new flag, but cannot oblige the two corporate logos we have finished up with, so voting to keep old.

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