Should New Zealand invest in nuclear power plants?

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Networkn
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#3229247 12-May-2024 12:40

tweake:

in this context, that's incorrect. we certainly can change what's happened in the past (tho there is practical limits). hence the term retrofit. many countries do this already and have govt programs for this.

2ndly we don't have to keep doing the thing thats not working. there is already more generation in the pipeline. but that doesn't mean we can't reduce the load as well.

Retrofit what exactly? Who will pay for this?

Our new building standards should be highly naturally than they were 50 years ago. How long does a modern house expect to stand for? I'd be happy to see changes that increase that number, though it should be done with a fair amount of consultation (though I acknowledge the issues this causes and the fact I have railed against the amount of power the average person has the wag the dog in NZ).

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#3229307 12-May-2024 16:07

Handle9: In most locations in New Zealand there’s too much wind for viable wind farms.

The wind industry in general is a bit of a mess. There’s a lot of money being lost by a lot of manufacturers and a general lack of reliability in service.

Umm, What?

NZ wind-farms have a capacity factor which is among the highest in the world.

The industry is fairly mature now. Developers wouldn't continue to build new wind farms and vendors sell them turbines, if it wasn't profitable for both parties.

Dingbatt

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#3229316 12-May-2024 16:35

Scott3:

Umm, What?

NZ wind-farms have a capacity factor which is among the highest in the world.

The industry is fairly mature now. Developers wouldn't continue to build new wind farms and vendors sell them turbines, if it wasn't profitable for both parties.

Just had a look at the “Windy” app. The highest wind speed I can find for the whole country is 6 knots and for huge areas it is calm. So for the coldest period so far this year not much of a contribution from wind.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

tweake

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#3229328 12-May-2024 17:16

networkn:

Retrofit what exactly? Who will pay for this?

Our new building standards should be highly naturally than they were 50 years ago. How long does a modern house expect to stand for? I'd be happy to see changes that increase that number, though it should be done with a fair amount of consultation (though I acknowledge the issues this causes and the fact I have railed against the amount of power the average person has the wag the dog in NZ).

retrofit houses/industry. people/companies plus govt and electric companies pay for it. fairly common overseas to have retrofit programs to upgrade old houses etc. even electric companies subsidize big industry to run more power efficient equipment.

our home building standards only increased last year. they have horribly below par for a very very long time. so even a 1 year old home is below spec. plus we don't take things like air tightness into account (or solar gain), so in real practical terms even the new standards where below par when they came out. then add in that other countries are increasing their standards, so even our new standards are out of date before we even build new homes to that standard.

the problem is vested companies have been waging the dog to keep them well fed at the expense of people having good homes.

deepred

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#3229331 12-May-2024 17:28

tweake:

networkn:

Retrofit what exactly? Who will pay for this?

Our new building standards should be highly naturally than they were 50 years ago. How long does a modern house expect to stand for? I'd be happy to see changes that increase that number, though it should be done with a fair amount of consultation (though I acknowledge the issues this causes and the fact I have railed against the amount of power the average person has the wag the dog in NZ).

retrofit houses/industry. people/companies plus govt and electric companies pay for it. fairly common overseas to have retrofit programs to upgrade old houses etc. even electric companies subsidize big industry to run more power efficient equipment.

our home building standards only increased last year. they have horribly below par for a very very long time. so even a 1 year old home is below spec. plus we don't take things like air tightness into account (or solar gain), so in real practical terms even the new standards where below par when they came out. then add in that other countries are increasing their standards, so even our new standards are out of date before we even build new homes to that standard.

the problem is vested companies have been waging the dog to keep them well fed at the expense of people having good homes.

A duopolised building materials sector isn't helping either. And don't get me started on the "housing market with bits tacked on". Now that the Housing Minister has green-lit most of Wellington City's zoning recommendations, it's just 1 step towards un-fscking the housing market.

"I regret to say that we of the F.B.I. are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." — J. Edgar Hoover

"Create a society that values material things above all else. Strip it of industry. Raise taxes for the poor and reduce them for the rich and for corporations. Prop up failed financial institutions with public money. Ask for more tax, while vastly reducing public services. Put adverts everywhere, regardless of people's ability to afford the things they advertise. Allow the cost of food and housing to eclipse people's ability to pay for them. Light blue touch paper." — Andrew Maxwell

tdgeek

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#3229333 12-May-2024 17:35

Scott3:

Handle9: In most locations in New Zealand there’s too much wind for viable wind farms.

The wind industry in general is a bit of a mess. There’s a lot of money being lost by a lot of manufacturers and a general lack of reliability in service.

Umm, What?

NZ wind-farms have a capacity factor which is among the highest in the world.

The industry is fairly mature now. Developers wouldn't continue to build new wind farms and vendors sell them turbines, if it wasn't profitable for both parties.

Not disputing that, but in the EV threads years ago, there was a theme of green energy, MASSES of in-process new builds applied for. Last time I looked we are not awash with wind, solar and tidal farms

tdgeek

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#3229334 12-May-2024 17:37

Dingbatt:

Just had a look at the “Windy” app. The highest wind speed I can find for the whole country is 6 knots and for huge areas it is calm. So for the coldest period so far this year not much of a contribution from wind.

Correct. But how often in 52 weeks do have have a polar blast with next to no wind and high frost?

Its autumn now so more wind, but its also climate change autumn, so who knows. In any case for a tiny sea bound country there is always wind

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tdgeek

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#3229336 12-May-2024 17:39

tweake:

so even a 1 year old home is below spec.

Citation needed

tweake

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#3229339 12-May-2024 17:52

tdgeek:

tweake:

so even a 1 year old home is below spec.

Citation needed

??? not really required. if i remember right the upgraded rules came in last year (may?), they havn't been in a year yet. so a 1 year old home would be built under the old rules, which is below the current spec. a lot of homes still being built now would have been approved under the old rules. probably only just starting to see new homes built to the new rules now, given how long planning and building a house takes.

tdgeek

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#3229341 12-May-2024 17:56

tweake:

??? not really required. if i remember right the upgraded rules came in last year (may?), they havn't been in a year yet. so a 1 year old home would be built under the old rules, which is below the current spec. a lot of homes still being built now would have been approved under the old rules. probably only just starting to see new homes built to the new rules now, given how long planning and building a house takes.

Whats the old rules and the new rules? Old rules no double glazing and no insulation?? Ok im pushing it here, but our house built 2011 has double glazing and fully insulated, I dont see this place as special.

Jase2985

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#3229342 12-May-2024 18:09

tdgeek:

tweake:

??? not really required. if i remember right the upgraded rules came in last year (may?), they havn't been in a year yet. so a 1 year old home would be built under the old rules, which is below the current spec. a lot of homes still being built now would have been approved under the old rules. probably only just starting to see new homes built to the new rules now, given how long planning and building a house takes.

Whats the old rules and the new rules? Old rules no double glazing and no insulation?? Ok im pushing it here, but our house built 2011 has double glazing and fully insulated, I dont see this place as special.

https://arcline.co.nz/new-nz-insulation-rules-2023/

changed insulation standards of both walls and windows

The level of insulation in your 2011 house may not meet today's new requirements, even though its "fully Insulated and has double glazing"

you are over simplifying things.

tdgeek

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#3229344 12-May-2024 18:21

Jase2985:

https://arcline.co.nz/new-nz-insulation-rules-2023/

changed insulation standards of both walls and windows

The level of insulation in your 2011 house may not meet today's new requirements, even though its "fully Insulated and has double glazing"

you are over simplifying things.

Perhaps. It depends if our house was over spec then or not. End of the day its modern, warm and dry. The last house was a 1940's villa, we reclad and insulated, also warm and dry and easily heated. (all exterior walls had batts, and all windows new double glazed)

Im not really over simplifying things. If we had a 2000 house will it be terrible and cost a high 5 figure number to bring up to spec?

Im in ChCh

Handle9

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#3229350 12-May-2024 18:45

Scott3:
Handle9: In most locations in New Zealand there’s too much wind for viable wind farms.

The wind industry in general is a bit of a mess. There’s a lot of money being lost by a lot of manufacturers and a general lack of reliability in service.

Umm, What?

NZ wind-farms have a capacity factor which is among the highest in the world.

The industry is fairly mature now. Developers wouldn't continue to build new wind farms and vendors sell them turbines, if it wasn't profitable for both parties.

Siemens Gamesa lost €2 billion last year. Vestas was profitable in Q4 but have signaled they probably won’t stay that way and are not paying a dividend to maintain cash in the bank. Orsted have signalled around 800 redundancies and are exiting a number of product lines. GE Vernova lost $1.4 billion last year. It’s not a healthy industry.

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#3229356 12-May-2024 19:08

Handle9:

Siemens Gamesa lost €2 billion last year. Vestas was profitable in Q4 but have signaled they probably won’t stay that way and are not paying a dividend to maintain cash in the bank. Orsted have signalled around 800 redundancies and are exiting a number of product lines. GE Vernova lost $1.4 billion last year. It’s not a healthy industry.

What point are you making here? That wind energy is a losing proposition? Or that we just don't do it very well?

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Jase2985

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#3229357 12-May-2024 19:08

tdgeek:

Jase2985:

https://arcline.co.nz/new-nz-insulation-rules-2023/

changed insulation standards of both walls and windows

The level of insulation in your 2011 house may not meet today's new requirements, even though its "fully Insulated and has double glazing"

you are over simplifying things.

Perhaps. It depends if our house was over spec then or not. End of the day its modern, warm and dry. The last house was a 1940's villa, we reclad and insulated, also warm and dry and easily heated. (all exterior walls had batts, and all windows new double glazed)

Im not really over simplifying things. If we had a 2000 house will it be terrible and cost a high 5 figure number to bring up to spec?

Im in ChCh

in the scheme of things, yes. You generally wont know what level of insulation is in your walls unless you put it there or its been recorded somewhere in a house, and if it's not it's safe to assume its the minimum for when it was built. Yes the differences may be minor, but over a year could be 10's-100's of kWh of energy.

A generic double insulated window from 10 years generally wont preform as well as one from today. Yes the differences may be minor, but over a year could be 10's-100's of kWh of energy.

All those 10's-100's of kWh of energy add up.

You don't have to bring it up to spec, but trying to upgrade insulation is not an easy task so when you put it in you should put in the best you can afford, it costs a very minimal amount at the time, but would pay itself off over the life of the house. Same again for windows, unless they are overly leaky It's likely not worth the cost of upgrading them. It also comes with a lot of potential complications like weather tightness etc.

For someone in a house with no insulation in the walls, trying to upgrade insulation is not an easy task either, there are companies that can blow it in from the outside through holes they drill in the wall but thats all extra work to refinish the outside of the house.
Ceiling is realitevely easy, as is under floor on a suspended floor house, not so much for a concrete slab.

Most people but the bare minimum insulation and double glazing into their houses. Hence, why the bare minimum standard should be a higher than it has been, and currently is.

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