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Rikkitic
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  #3209056 21-Mar-2024 10:43
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During a discussion with a friend on the subject of welfare, I thought of an approach that might (or might not) be worth trying. My idea is to make the dole conditional on a very simple requirement: If you want the money, you have to sit in a chair for eight hours. At the end of the time, you are given the cash in hand and are free to leave. Next day the same.

 

Of course there would be exceptions for those with legitimate reasons to not be able to meet this requirement, but able-bodied, work-capable people under pension age would have to if they wanted their money. There would be no other demands on them and they would get toilet and lunch breaks, but any unauthorised absences from the chair would result in their money for that day being withdrawn. Any phones or other devices would be locked away and returned at the end of the day. The dole recipients would have to arrive on time, no excuses, and spend the full eight hours in the chair to receive their money. They could sleep if they wanted to, but they would have to sleep sitting up in a straight-backed chair. 

 

In front of the chair would be a video screen advertising available jobs and specialised training courses, as well as presenting motivational talks. There would also be resource people available to act as guides and help with personal issues. There would be no pressure to respond to any of this, but they would display opportunities for alternatives to sitting in the chair. Anyone could choose at any point to leave the chair for work or training opportunities, but any failure to meet obligations would mean immediate cessation of payments, with the only option being a return to the chair. Of course adequate supervision would be needed to ensure compliance and discipline, especially at first. The success of something like this depends entirely on full and consistent enforcement of the rules.

 

Who knows? It might be worth a try!
 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


sir1963
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  #3209060 21-Mar-2024 10:52
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Rikkitic:

 

During a discussion with a friend on the subject of welfare, I thought of an approach that might (or might not) be worth trying. My idea is to make the dole conditional on a very simple requirement: If you want the money, you have to sit in a chair for eight hours. At the end of the time, you are given the cash in hand and are free to leave. Next day the same.

 

Of course there would be exceptions for those with legitimate reasons to not be able to meet this requirement, but able-bodied, work-capable people under pension age would have to if they wanted their money. There would be no other demands on them and they would get toilet and lunch breaks, but any unauthorised absences from the chair would result in their money for that day being withdrawn. Any phones or other devices would be locked away and returned at the end of the day. The dole recipients would have to arrive on time, no excuses, and spend the full eight hours in the chair to receive their money. They could sleep if they wanted to, but they would have to sleep sitting up in a straight-backed chair. 

 

In front of the chair would be a video screen advertising available jobs and specialised training courses, as well as presenting motivational talks. There would also be resource people available to act as guides and help with personal issues. There would be no pressure to respond to any of this, but they would display opportunities for alternatives to sitting in the chair. Anyone could choose at any point to leave the chair for work or training opportunities, but any failure to meet obligations would mean immediate cessation of payments, with the only option being a return to the chair. Of course adequate supervision would be needed to ensure compliance and discipline, especially at first. The success of something like this depends entirely on full and consistent enforcement of the rules.

 

Who knows? It might be worth a try!
 

 

 

No, I would say they need to do is give access to

 

Drug / Alcohol Metal health

 

Child welfare courses

 

Cooking / houseware courses

 

Gardening

 

Budgetting

 

Education

 

Get them involved in community projects so they feel as though they actually have a stake in their community.

 

Helping people out of a rut works better than "The beatings will continue until morale improves"

 

 

 

Various people are too willing to pay $150,000 a year to keep people in prison and nothing to keep them out...."Tough on crime"


freitasm
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  #3209063 21-Mar-2024 10:58
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This is not WTF folks. If you want to discuss welfare, death penalty, please create topics in the Politics sub-forum.





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johno1234
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  #3209064 21-Mar-2024 11:05
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frankv:

 

The downsides of "workfare" are threefold:

 

     

  1. The people forced to work are placed in an exploitable position. Shit work under shit conditions and shit management is what they can expect.
  2. This depresses the labour market, reducing wages and conditions across the board. No need to treat people well or buy some equipment if you can can get some workfare slaves
  3. It costs more to provide the support services and manage the coercion of the unwilling than just paying the dole.

 

For example, many years ago I taught computing at CIT. At that time, the government sought to improve youth unemployment by reducing the dole for those under 21 IIRC, but paid more for those in training. Predictably, this led to an upsurge in students, and a downturn in unemployment. Also predictably, it meant that our classrooms were full, but largely with people who didn't really want to be there. Management was happy with lots of government-paid fees. Of course, we now had to record attendance, so a chunk of every lesson was wasted with roll calls. And latecomers. And interruptions. And general misbehaviour. Maybe someone was checking those rolls, and doing some enforcement for non-attendance, although I don't think so. After a couple of months, attendance fell back to normal levels, and we got on with teaching the remaining motivated and interested students.

 

Nevertheless, I do agree. Mainly because it forces the government to address the issue of providing assistance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think society should endure the downsides, for an overall net benefit to society. Otherwise there's a slow movement from working to not working if people can do so.

 

Re

 

1) most people are "forced" to work because of their own needs and expectations. I am. They are all exploitable to a degree. All of us working stiffs here included.

 

2) it won't depress the market massively as long as there's demand and the current level of unemployment is manageably low. However if we allow things to degenerate until we reach 3rd world levels, it becomes very much more difficult to recover.

 

 


freitasm
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  #3209065 21-Mar-2024 11:07
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@johno1234 I asked TWICE to discuss this somewhere else.

 

I am going to start locking people out of this thread.

 

 





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johno1234
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  #3209066 21-Mar-2024 11:09
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freitasm:

 

@johno1234 I asked TWICE to discuss this somewhere else.

 

I am going to start locking people out of this thread.

 

 

 

 

Sorry! Typed it in a while ago and it was sitting there but only pushed the post just now - without noticing your post in the interval


Lias
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  #3209082 21-Mar-2024 11:31
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Geektastic: The difference in fuel prices.

The two nearest petrol stations to me are a GAS in one direction and NPD in the other. About equidistant.

95 unleaded at GAS is 39 cents more expensive per litre. What the….!

 

Levin is a great example of that. Within the space of a ~750m stretch of the main road there are 6 petrol stations and the price gap from cheapest to priciest is just under 30 cents (28.2 for 91 and 29.2 for 95).





I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup.


cshwone
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  #3209089 21-Mar-2024 11:48
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Lias:

 

Geektastic: The difference in fuel prices.

The two nearest petrol stations to me are a GAS in one direction and NPD in the other. About equidistant.

95 unleaded at GAS is 39 cents more expensive per litre. What the….!

 

Levin is a great example of that. Within the space of a ~750m stretch of the main road there are 6 petrol stations and the price gap from cheapest to priciest is just under 30 cents (28.2 for 91 and 29.2 for 95).

 

 

And it can often be even cheaper just up the road in Foxton


Kyanar
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  #3209101 21-Mar-2024 12:21
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Geektastic: The difference in fuel prices.

The two nearest petrol stations to me are a GAS in one direction and NPD in the other. About equidistant.

95 unleaded at GAS is 39 cents more expensive per litre. What the….!

 

I can confirm it's the same here in Australia, except we've got a BP across the road from a 7-Eleven (Mobil) with an 8 cent difference, another 7-Eleven 2km away 17 cents cheaper, a Costco about 10km away 43 cents cheaper, and just generally all over the place.

 

Petrol price apps are a godsend. The real whiskey tango foxtrot is that New Zealand hasn't copied the example of every Australian state and territory government and mandated price reporting to a government department by petrol stations with one opportunity to change price per day before reporting, and making that data freely available for petrol price apps and the like to build on.


frankv
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  #3209165 21-Mar-2024 14:20
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cshwone:

 

And it can often be even cheaper just up the road in Foxton

 

 

When I worked in PN, I noticed that low prices seemed to cycle around between PN, Feilding, & Bulls. One or other was usually 10c or more cheaper than the other 2. With the help of Gaspy I would go to whichever.

 

For the last 6 months or more, it seems that Feilding is consistently more expensive than PN or Bulls, by about 30c. The good news is that New World in Marton consistently has the cheapest petrol in the area.

 

 


gzt

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  #3209360 21-Mar-2024 17:10
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Frankv: Under the current neo-liberal government policies, tenancy as opposed to home ownership will become more common,

Your comment is inclusive of this occuring regardless of the party.

kingdragonfly
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  #3209376 21-Mar-2024 19:12
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Happiness report 2024

HR sponsors and for data from the Gallup World Poll and the Gallup/Meta State of Social Connections study

Some shocker in here

#1-4 Nordic regions
#5 Israel
#10 Australia
#11 New Zealand
#13 Kuwait
#20 UK
#23 USA

Kyanar
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  #3209380 21-Mar-2024 19:47
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kingdragonfly: Happiness report 2024

HR sponsors and for data from the Gallup World Poll and the Gallup/Meta State of Social Connections study

Some shocker in here

#1-4 Nordic regions
#5 Israel
#10 Australia
#11 New Zealand
#13 Kuwait
#20 UK
#23 USA

 

Hah, I'm almost tempted to suggest that's due to the what the ... that is how easy it is to get a prescription for "happy drugs" from a GP that just wants to get you out the door! Seriously, the last time I had that discussion with my GP, he actually asked me what he should prescribe!


neb

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  #3209402 21-Mar-2024 22:13
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kingdragonfly: Happiness report 2024

#1-4 Nordic regions
#5 Israel
#10 Australia
#11 New Zealand
#13 Kuwait
#20 UK
#23 USA

 

 

That should be:

 

 

#1-4 Nordic regions

 

#5 Israel (Jewish)

 

#10 Australia

 

#11 New Zealand

 

#13 Kuwait (male Kuwaitis)

 

#20 UK

 

#23 USA

 

#79 Kuwait (Filipinos, Egyptians, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans, female Kuwaitis)

 

#999999 Israel (Palestinian)

 

 

(Followups to the Gaza thread).

Lias
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  #3209442 22-Mar-2024 10:03
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neb: #999999 Israel (Palestinian) (Followups to the Gaza thread).

 

I'll leave the debates to that other thread, but just a footnote because I'm unsure if you are making a joke, is that this is factually incorrect. The vast majority of Gazan residents are not Israeli citizens.





I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup.


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