Changing of our flag , Yes or No.

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Mad Scientist
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#1450011 14-Dec-2015 09:32

dafman: One positive, Red Peak can still live on as a second alternative flag irrespective of whether the corporate logo makes it through the next referendum or not.

Alternative national flag? How?

trig42

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#1450013 14-Dec-2015 09:42

I don't particularly like the Lockwood design that won the referendum, I voted for the other one (red, white fern, blue) first, red peak second and the winner third (did not like the B&W ones at all).
I do not understand the people that defaced their voting papers - idiots. Not like by defacing them you are going to get the money back. Some people should not be allowed to read social media posts (the same morons who are sharing the 'do not accept the new money' posts).

I do not know yet which way I will vote in March, but I will vote - it is my right, and my duty and I intend to use it.
I think the current flag has done its day, but I am not really a fan of the Black and Blue fern flag. Maybe if it could be tweaked a little? By a professional or three?

MikeB4

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#1450014 14-Dec-2015 09:45

Paul1977: I predict an overwhelming (and embarrassing for the government) landslide to keep the current flag.

- The 10% of voters who cast invalid votes as a protest will all vote against change.
- Red Peak supporters (which was still easily the 3rd most popular) will vote for no change.
- Anyone that didn't vote in the first referendum who choose to vote in the second will be voting for no change.

"No change" will win by at least a 2:1 margin.

I am in favour of change but I am going to vote no as I just want the nonsense to stop. I could not stand the BS that would ensue if the vote was yes to change

networkn

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#1450018 14-Dec-2015 09:50

Not sure how it would be embarrassing for the Government?

I see plenty of people who would like it to be so, but I don't foresee embarrassment, I foresee them putting forward a motion and allowing the people to have their opinions heard.

tdgeek

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#1450019 14-Dec-2015 09:51

dafman: One positive, Red Peak can still live on as a second alternative flag irrespective of whether the corporate logo makes it through the next referendum or not.

Red Peak is the logo flag. And there are variations that are business logos in use today

If the winning flag in the referendum fails to beat the Commonwealth flag we currently use, I'll fly the NZ flag if they make some. And leave officialdom to fly the commonwealth flag

trig42

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#1450020 14-Dec-2015 09:55

networkn: Not sure how it would be embarrassing for the Government?

I see plenty of people who would like it to be so, but I don't foresee embarrassment, I foresee them putting forward a motion and allowing the people to have their opinions heard.

Agreed, there will be people all over it if the current flag wins in the referendum.
Unfortunately it has become too politicized, and the 'left' will IMO be less likely to vote for change as they (or the stupid ones amongst them) will see it as a vote for Key.

tdgeek

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#1450021 14-Dec-2015 09:56

MikeB4: I read some comments on media sites that the proposal to consider changing the flag is anti democratic. Hmmmmm public submissions for the designs then two referendums to decide are undemocratic????
A lot of the commentary etc around this whole thing has saddened me greatly. I weep for our future sometimes.

Yep. If some like the new proposed flag, and feel it represents NZ, great
If some like the current flag as that better represents NZ, great

But, many posts, comments, forums, seem to not be into the above points, its about peripheral stuff. Argument for the sake of it. Something to oppose as thats trendy these days

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tdgeek

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#1450022 14-Dec-2015 10:00

MikeB4:
Paul1977: I predict an overwhelming (and embarrassing for the government) landslide to keep the current flag.

- The 10% of voters who cast invalid votes as a protest will all vote against change.
- Red Peak supporters (which was still easily the 3rd most popular) will vote for no change.
- Anyone that didn't vote in the first referendum who choose to vote in the second will be voting for no change.

"No change" will win by at least a 2:1 margin.

I am in favour of change but I am going to vote no as I just want the nonsense to stop. I could not stand the BS that would ensue if the vote was yes to change

So you wont vote for the flag that you feel best represents NZ? Seems that the votes are not for the flags, which is the intention of the vote. So, the outspken win, we will all cave in and not vote for the right reasons? Sad state of affairs

Paul1977

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#1450023 14-Dec-2015 10:02

networkn: Not sure how it would be embarrassing for the Government?

I see plenty of people who would like it to be so, but I don't foresee embarrassment, I foresee them putting forward a motion and allowing the people to have their opinions heard.

Embarrassing because the entire process has been a debacle from the beginning, polls have consistently shown that the majority are against a change, and response to the alternative designs chosen by the committee ranged from cold to luke-warm.

dafman

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#1450026 14-Dec-2015 10:06

joker97:
dafman: One positive, Red Peak can still live on as a second alternative flag irrespective of whether the corporate logo makes it through the next referendum or not.

Alternative national flag? How?

By enough people choosing to fly it on flagpoles, putting on their backpacks, at sport games, flag bumper stickers, tee-shirts - if enough do it, will could become a recognised alternative co-existing happily alongside the official one.

networkn

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#1450035 14-Dec-2015 10:19

dafman:
joker97:
dafman: One positive, Red Peak can still live on as a second alternative flag irrespective of whether the corporate logo makes it through the next referendum or not.

Alternative national flag? How?

By enough people choosing to fly it on flagpoles, putting on their backpacks, at sport games, flag bumper stickers, tee-shirts - if enough do it, will could become a recognized alternative co-existing happily alongside the official one.

I think you are grossly over estimating how many people care enough to BUY stuff to fly an alternative. If people cared enough to do that, the referendum would reflect that with results.

amiga500

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#1450326 14-Dec-2015 20:28

I find Red Peak to be visually jarring and to me just unpleasant. The winning alternative flag is not bold enough, I voted for the red and blue version, on the basis of which flag would I be least disappointed in should it win in March - if that makes sense. Although the winner is designed by one person, it could have been designed by a group of people striving for consensus. I shall be voting for the current flag.

I also think it is quite good that we have a flag similar to Australia. Although we are fierce rivals in sports, when one Country needs help who steps up first? Bush fires Kiwi fire fighters are over there helping. Christchurch earthquakes, Aussie Police helping out. RNZAF Orion looking for the Malaysian plane etc etc. Yes, true we are at times like fighting cousins, but we more alike than different.

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#1450335 14-Dec-2015 20:58

If they wanted to include a Koru, it should simplified AND does not take up all the real estate on the flag. Cue the canadian maple leaf. simple, striking, central, symmetrical, it just works.

networkn

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#1450356 14-Dec-2015 21:08

Paul1977:
networkn: Not sure how it would be embarrassing for the Government?

I see plenty of people who would like it to be so, but I don't foresee embarrassment, I foresee them putting forward a motion and allowing the people to have their opinions heard.

Embarrassing because the entire process has been a debacle from the beginning, polls have consistently shown that the majority are against a change, and response to the alternative designs chosen by the committee ranged from cold to luke-warm.

I don't think that's embarrassing. JK wasn't the first politican to suggest it. Not everything has to be about roads, education and health care. We all get a chance to vote, the vote is fair, you get to pick which design you prefer, and then get to offer it against the existing.

Batman

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#1450357 14-Dec-2015 21:12

The idea was noble, the process was fair. The options ... umm I'd rather have one designed by Year 3 kids. But it's a bit late now ... boo

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