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SaltyNZ
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  #3229670 13-May-2024 11:20
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wellygary:

 

Batman: What's the issue with wind farms? There's an area called Catlins in the south and it's magnitudes more windy than Wellington. I presume many coastal places are just as windy.

 

Yip, and Contact have plans in that part of the world, however I suspect it is very much hanging on what happens with Tiwai, 

 

If someone is about to free up 5000Gwh of generation in the deep south, that will kill any more generation plans until that is reabsorbed by other load (Fonterra electrification + hydrogen??) 

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/133257849/contact-energy-to-lodge-1b-southland-wind-farm-consent-application-by-years-end

 

But also....

 

"The wind farm was being opposed by the West Catlins Preservation Society, with spokesperson Dean Rabbidge saying after the council meeting that Slopedown was an outstanding natural landscape that could be seen from Southland and south and west Otago.

 

“It’s going to be destroyed by 55 wind turbines [that are] 220m high.”

 

He said that if it went ahead, it would set a dangerous precedent for Southland."

 

 

 

 

Yet another reason why the next time they threaten to shut it down if they don't get a sweet power deal, the government should just say 'Cool cool, don't forget to clean up all your toxic slag on the way out.' I mean, that's what the Free Hand of the Market would demand, right?





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gzt

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  #3229702 13-May-2024 11:50
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Vogtle was the first new reactor project built in the USA since 2016 or thereabouts. The article quote says "initial cost". In reality the project massively overan costs. We can guess reasons - all the usual large project issues plus degraded build capability.

In the end Vogtle construction bankrupted Westinghouse.

SMRs are very likely to have less construction risk. There are other benefits to appropriate sizing. It could be the SMR estimate is actually realistic. Also bear in mind any SMR will be the first SMR and there will be plenty of construction risks with that.

SaltyNZ
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  #3229708 13-May-2024 12:21
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gzt:  It could be the SMR estimate is actually realistic. Also bear in mind any SMR will be the first SMR and there will be plenty of construction risks with that.

 

 

 

It could be realistic. But given that mundane stuff that isn't nuclear and we build all the time routinely goes over cost estimates, I wouldn't hold my breath that cost estimates for something nobody has ever built anywhere before are even close.





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Lias
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  #3229838 13-May-2024 16:11
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I've always thought we should ditch the anti nuclear stance in general, and if the economics of nuclear power stacked up, sure, why not.





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ezbee
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  #3229841 13-May-2024 16:17
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If you have this much trouble getting Windfarms consented.
I expect out on the ocean like Uk does would still see strong opposition.

 

Nevermind problems getting new Dams consented.

 

Good luck getting Nucelar through the process.
The new future technologies are also even further away from us.
There is no chance of us pioneering a new design, with the exceptional R&D cost.

 

We can't even fund the technically easy Pumped Lake storage, and Ferries for our vital interisland logistics link.
Nuclear power, its getting cargo cultish to presume someone else is going to pay for it. 

 

Some things are not for people with shallow pockets, and we are but simple farming folk. :-) 


deepred
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  #3229845 13-May-2024 16:29
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SaltyNZ:

 

mattwnz: One factor is also the price to decommission a nuclear reactor at the end of its life. In the UK I read that is about 12 billion NZD per reactor. UK are in the process of decommissioning their current ones. Who would end up paying for that. It does feel a bit like false economy.

 

I think we all know who ends up paying for that. There's a well established industry model for these sorts of things.

 

 

For that, some compulsory clean-up levies on extractive industries would be in order, so that taxpayers & ratepayers aren't lumped with the bill.





"I regret to say that we of the F.B.I. are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." — J. Edgar Hoover

"Create a society that values material things above all else. Strip it of industry. Raise taxes for the poor and reduce them for the rich and for corporations. Prop up failed financial institutions with public money. Ask for more tax, while vastly reducing public services. Put adverts everywhere, regardless of people's ability to afford the things they advertise. Allow the cost of food and housing to eclipse people's ability to pay for them. Light blue touch paper." — Andrew Maxwell


deepred
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  #3229854 13-May-2024 16:34
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Batman: What's the issue with wind farms? There's an area called Catlins in the south and it's magnitudes more windy than Wellington. I presume many coastal places are just as windy.

 

As it turns out, some of the issue with wind farms is being pushed by Big Oil astroturfing.

 





"I regret to say that we of the F.B.I. are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." — J. Edgar Hoover

"Create a society that values material things above all else. Strip it of industry. Raise taxes for the poor and reduce them for the rich and for corporations. Prop up failed financial institutions with public money. Ask for more tax, while vastly reducing public services. Put adverts everywhere, regardless of people's ability to afford the things they advertise. Allow the cost of food and housing to eclipse people's ability to pay for them. Light blue touch paper." — Andrew Maxwell


 
 
 

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BlargHonk
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  #3230052 14-May-2024 07:40
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Lias:

 

I've always thought we should ditch the anti nuclear stance in general, and if the economics of nuclear power stacked up, sure, why not.

 

 

 

 

Here's the answer, they don't


Batman
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  #3230066 14-May-2024 08:54
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SaltyNZ:

Batman: What's the issue with wind farms?


 


Apparently lots of people think a coal-fired power plant is prettier than a field of windmills.



Or cow sheet infested rivers

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  #3230074 14-May-2024 09:38
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I wasn't going to repost here but I was reading this article and it is very relative to this discussion. The Financial cost and human cost does not add up for nuclear power. We are gifting our tamariki a big enough mess now, we don't need to add more.

 

 

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350277266/earthquake-disaster-risk-nzs-hikurangi-subduction-zone

 

 


johno1234
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  #3230078 14-May-2024 10:10
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It says nothing about which regions are affected. I already cited research that Northland is at lower risk. Earthquakes diminish over distance which is why the Napier earthquake didn't damage Auckland and the Christchurch earthquakes didn't damage Dunedin.

 

Try again.

 

 


MikeB4
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  #3230136 14-May-2024 10:38
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johno1234:

 

It says nothing about which regions are affected. I already cited research that Northland is at lower risk. Earthquakes diminish over distance which is why the Napier earthquake didn't damage Auckland and the Christchurch earthquakes didn't damage Dunedin.

 

Try again.

 

 

 

 

An earthquake at 9+ magnitude with shaking lasting 4 to 8 minutes the entire country will be heavily impacted.To place some perspective the February temblor was 6.1 magnitude and lasted 10 seconds. The Kaikoura quake in 2016 ws 7.1 and lasted two minutes. A 9+ temblor would  would have 32+ times greater energy than the Christchurch Earthquake.

 

A 9+ slip on the Hikurangi subduction zone would probably cause quakes on other major faultlines in both the North and South Island and along the South Island Alpine fault. It could also trigger volcanic eruptions on the Central Plateau, Whakaari and the Auckland volcanic field. 

 

Then there would be the aftershocks up to near the force of the main shake that would continue for years after. The entire country would be heavily impacted and would take decades to recover.


johno1234
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  #3230189 14-May-2024 11:12
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So you say, but I asked previously for a citation as with all due respect, I don't accept you as an expert on the subject of seismology so unsubstantiated assertions count for little.

 

But think a little deeper. From your own source, the effects of such an event would certainly be devastating for certain areas of the country with untold destruction and loss of life. As pointed out by others in this thread, in the Fukushima disaster, there was incalculable loss of life and destruction. But from the nuclear plant - zero or perhaps one fatality.

 

In short, If the Hikurangi fault has a catastrophic collapse, a nuclear plant high above sea level in Northland is the least of your worries.

 

 

 

 


Rikkitic
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  #3230204 14-May-2024 11:25
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johno1234:

 

So you say, but I asked previously for a citation as with all due respect, I don't accept you as an expert on the subject of seismology so unsubstantiated assertions count for little.

 

 

Oh yay, another 'my citation is bigger than yours' competition.

 

 





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johno1234
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  #3230207 14-May-2024 11:29
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Rikkitic:

 

johno1234:

 

So you say, but I asked previously for a citation as with all due respect, I don't accept you as an expert on the subject of seismology so unsubstantiated assertions count for little.

 

 

Oh yay, another 'my citation is bigger than yours' competition.

 

 

Well, just a citation, big or small, would help one determine the veracity and reliability of the content. Otherwise how do we separate supportable facts from made up nonsense?

 

 


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