[Annoy] What's something small that really annoys you?

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#3298766 17-Oct-2024 21:19

networkn:

Politicians who commit crimes and then complain conviction for said Crime will impact them.

People in general, not just politicians. "Oh but it will impact their career". No crap genius, maybe they should have thought of that before committing the crimes. That's how consequences work for normal people.

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#3299004 18-Oct-2024 23:29

networkn:
Politicians who commit crimes and then complain conviction for said Crime will impact them.

Related: when sentences do not reflect the crime. This seems to be one difference rarely mentioned between NZ and Australia.

Some guy murdered a woman in Australia and was sentenced to 32 years in prison, of which he must serve 24 before being eligible for parole. He’ll be about 80 then.

Observationally I can’t help but feel he’d have been unlucky to get half of that here.

I was also watching some programs about death penalty cases in the UK in the first half of the 20th century and was quite surprised at the brevity of the trials (a week, sometimes two, was about average) and the brevity of jury deliberation. Just 15 minutes in one case covered!

These days such a case would last ages and the jury would spend more time than that ordering lunch.

It’s curious how the administration of justice differs between places and between eras even though essentially the crimes remain the same.

neb

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#3299006 18-Oct-2024 23:54

Geektastic: It’s curious how the administration of justice differs between places and between eras even though essentially the crimes remain the same.

This is one area where western/European/whatever justice is way, waaay behind other justice systems. Islamic jurisprudence has had discretionary punishments for crimes since the 7th century, and the pre-Islamic ones it was based on long before that, where the judge could make the punishment fit the crime and/or the person's ability to handle it. There's an example of an Egyptian judge ruling that if a rich man stole a loaf of bread he had to pay a fine, if a poor/hungry man stole a loaf of bread he had to sweep up in the bakery for a week or something similar.

This was at a time when the European state of the art in justice was trial by ordeal, or to put it more bluntly, torturing the accused.

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#3299025 19-Oct-2024 08:32

Maybe the punishment for naughty politicians should be having to listen to the collected 'thoughts' of Donald Trump.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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#3299034 19-Oct-2024 10:07

rb99:

Maybe the punishment for naughty politicians should be having to listen to the collected 'thoughts' of Donald Trump.

Some of them would not consider that to be a punishment. It would just give them ideas.

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#3299037 19-Oct-2024 10:24

...not quite the perfect plan i guess 😀

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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sir1963

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#3299040 19-Oct-2024 10:55

Geektastic:

Related: when sentences do not reflect the crime. This seems to be one difference rarely mentioned between NZ and Australia.

Some guy murdered a woman in Australia and was sentenced to 32 years in prison, of which he must serve 24 before being eligible for parole. He’ll be about 80 then.

Observationally I can’t help but feel he’d have been unlucky to get half of that here.

I was also watching some programs about death penalty cases in the UK in the first half of the 20th century and was quite surprised at the brevity of the trials (a week, sometimes two, was about average) and the brevity of jury deliberation. Just 15 minutes in one case covered!

These days such a case would last ages and the jury would spend more time than that ordering lunch.

It’s curious how the administration of justice differs between places and between eras even though essentially the crimes remain the same.

It is believed that in the USA somewhere like 10-20% of those on death row are innocent. The USA has far more punitive justice system than here, yet violent crime etc etc are MUCH higher, its a system that clearly does not work.

The extra sentencing (twice) that he got would cost an additional $2.4 Million, we would also need to build additional prisons.

This is clearly a case of "prevention is cheaper than cure" , but the same people who want longer sentences object to money being spent on "bludgers" etc with the idea that if you hit them hard enough they will get a job. And of course we can not have kids at school getting "Woke food"... bead and water will straighten them out.

With prevention there are fewer victims, there are fewer culprits, we dont spend huge sums on crime solving, court time, etc etc too even before prison.

Yes there are some that no matter what we do will always be a problem, and those we need to find better ways. But the majority ???

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#3299041 19-Oct-2024 10:57

rb99:

Maybe the punishment for naughty politicians should be having to listen to the collected 'thoughts' of Donald Trump.

Loss of their government pensions .... Loss of ability to work for any local/national government in any senior role or elected official.

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#3299055 19-Oct-2024 13:30

sir1963: It is believed that in the USA somewhere like 10-20% of those on death row are innocent. The USA has far more punitive justice system than here, yet violent crime etc etc are MUCH higher, its a system that clearly does not work.

It works really well if you run, or are a shareholder in, their for-profit privatised prisons. Isn't predatory capitalism... uhh, the invisible hand of the market wonderful? And the astounding thing in the US is that by indoctrinating the people most likely to be its victims that the trigger word "socialism" means "evil" and that attempts to regulate the market are socialism and therefore evil, they've got them to embrace their own exploitation.

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#3299060 19-Oct-2024 14:03

sir1963:
Geektastic:

Related: when sentences do not reflect the crime. This seems to be one difference rarely mentioned between NZ and Australia.

Some guy murdered a woman in Australia and was sentenced to 32 years in prison, of which he must serve 24 before being eligible for parole. He’ll be about 80 then.

Observationally I can’t help but feel he’d have been unlucky to get half of that here.

I was also watching some programs about death penalty cases in the UK in the first half of the 20th century and was quite surprised at the brevity of the trials (a week, sometimes two, was about average) and the brevity of jury deliberation. Just 15 minutes in one case covered!

These days such a case would last ages and the jury would spend more time than that ordering lunch.

It’s curious how the administration of justice differs between places and between eras even though essentially the crimes remain the same.

It is believed that in the USA somewhere like 10-20% of those on death row are innocent. The USA has far more punitive justice system than here, yet violent crime etc etc are MUCH higher, its a system that clearly does not work.

The extra sentencing (twice) that he got would cost an additional $2.4 Million, we would also need to build additional prisons.

This is clearly a case of "prevention is cheaper than cure" , but the same people who want longer sentences object to money being spent on "bludgers" etc with the idea that if you hit them hard enough they will get a job. And of course we can not have kids at school getting "Woke food"... bead and water will straighten them out.

With prevention there are fewer victims, there are fewer culprits, we dont spend huge sums on crime solving, court time, etc etc too even before prison.

Yes there are some that no matter what we do will always be a problem, and those we need to find better ways. But the majority ???

The principle difference between capital punishment in the UK (obviously long abolished now) and the USA is that criminals under sentence of death in the UK spent 3 weeks or so in the condemned cell rather than decades as per the USA.

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#3299077 19-Oct-2024 15:44

sir1963:

...

It is believed that in the USA somewhere like 10-20% of those on death row are innocent. The USA has far more punitive justice system than here, yet violent crime etc etc are MUCH higher, its a system that clearly does not work.

The extra sentencing (twice) that he got would cost an additional $2.4 Million, we would also need to build additional prisons.

This is clearly a case of "prevention is cheaper than cure" , but the same people who want longer sentences object to money being spent on "bludgers" etc with the idea that if you hit them hard enough they will get a job. And of course we can not have kids at school getting "Woke food"... bead and water will straighten them out.

With prevention there are fewer victims, there are fewer culprits, we dont spend huge sums on crime solving, court time, etc etc too even before prison.

Yes there are some that no matter what we do will always be a problem, and those we need to find better ways. But the majority ???

Do you have a view on how to 'rehabilitate' this piece of work?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350453136/woman-forced-teen-eat-toilet-paper-smeared-her-faeces

Did Eric Clapton really think she looked wonderful...or was it after the 15th outfit she tried on and he just wanted to get to the party and get a drink?

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#3299084 19-Oct-2024 17:09

floydbloke:

Do you have a view on how to 'rehabilitate' this piece of work?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350453136/woman-forced-teen-eat-toilet-paper-smeared-her-faeces

To be honest, you cannot tell from the actions if it would be possible to rehab someone or not. The crime itself doesn't necessarily determine if the person is likely to be receptive to possible rehab methods or not.

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#3299094 19-Oct-2024 18:25

floydbloke:

Do you have a view on how to 'rehabilitate' this piece of work?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350453136/woman-forced-teen-eat-toilet-paper-smeared-her-faeces

There is none for either the perpetrator or the victim, but I also disagree that state sanctioned murder is OK.

How far do you go, do you eliminate the mentally insane, the severely handicapped ?

The fact that we can do nothing for some is not a good reason to give up and do nothing for everyone. More money and more resources available for welfare, education,mental health, etc will end up being cheaper and more moral long term.

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#3299107 19-Oct-2024 21:13

sir1963: How far do you go, do you eliminate the mentally insane, the severely handicapped ?

In the specific case of psychopaths, technically anyone who scores more than about 30 on the PCL-R diagnostic scale, there is no treatment and no cure, and they can't be released back into society because they'll offend again as soon as they get the chance. In order to protect society from them the only thing you can do with them is either lock them up until they die or bring the time of death forward a lot. Both are death sentences, it's just that one is passive killing so no-one has to feel guilty.

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#3299112 19-Oct-2024 21:39

neb:

sir1963: How far do you go, do you eliminate the mentally insane, the severely handicapped ?

In the specific case of psychopaths, technically anyone who scores more than about 30 on the PCL-R diagnostic scale, there is no treatment and no cure, and they can't be released back into society because they'll offend again as soon as they get the chance. In order to protect society from them the only thing you can do with them is either lock them up until they die or bring the time of death forward a lot. Both are death sentences, it's just that one is passive killing so no-one has to feel guilty.

Aside from the obvious miscarriage of justice argument against the death penalty, truly cold-blooded killers often crave martyrdom, and locking them up for life without parole denies them that martyrdom. Think the Oklahoma City bomber, who explicitly wanted the "tyrannical" US federal govt to execute him so that his followers in the militia movement would have a martyr for the cause. And there's a possibility the Christchurch mosque terrorist wanted to go out in a blaze of glory in a confrontation with the AOS.

"I regret to say that we of the F.B.I. are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." — J. Edgar Hoover

"Create a society that values material things above all else. Strip it of industry. Raise taxes for the poor and reduce them for the rich and for corporations. Prop up failed financial institutions with public money. Ask for more tax, while vastly reducing public services. Put adverts everywhere, regardless of people's ability to afford the things they advertise. Allow the cost of food and housing to eclipse people's ability to pay for them. Light blue touch paper." — Andrew Maxwell

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