Police use of ANPR cameras

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#635544 4-Jun-2012 17:10

kingjj:
I think you have the wrong end of the stick slightly surfisup1000, the ANPR system used by the New Zealand Police automatically reads passing number plates, if there is a flag against the number plate (stolen, sought, of interest, petrol drive off etc) than a Police unit will pull the car over. It is not being used to identify speeding vehicles or vehicles doing minor infringements (eg failing to indicate, parked on yellow lines etc). Its sole duty is automatically reading number plates checking for flags and licence/wof.

This is perfect if the NZ police use it just like this.

But, bureaucrats love to expand the scope on such systems. Hope it doesn't eventually get used for minor things.

Oblivian

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#635547 4-Jun-2012 17:11

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/560582_299147903511041_757678778_n.jpg

Counties Manukau. Sits middle of long straight, while officers sit at the other awaiting the pullover call.

Word has it they have had a patrol car with them mounted by the lightbar too for testing as pointed out for some time.

plod

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#635548 4-Jun-2012 17:12

Would it flag a car where the owner known to be suspended from driving, unpaid road tax, registration ?

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#635556 4-Jun-2012 17:34

you have to love this type of post and how people hedge around the truth or just ignore, worse still making something of nothing as in what it may be used for.

I have no issues with them using it for minor offences if that is what they deem best. I do have issues with those that get distraught because they or someone gets caught breaking the law.

As an analogy, if you get caught taking a bottle of milk from your work is that theft or is the amount insignificant so doesn't need to be classified as stealing. If so what amount would it need to be to be stealing or worth prosecuting.

The people that use ' its the principal 'should look at the fact that if they break the law then they are likely to be prosecuted/fined if caught, we need laws its as simple as that. Guilty or not, then extenuating circumstances which you can bring up in court but it isn't the job of the enforcement person to act as judge and jury only identify the offence.

If its revenue gathering then fine if it keeps my taxes down.

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Oblivian

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#635568 4-Jun-2012 18:00

plod: Would it flag a car where the owner known to be suspended from driving, unpaid road tax, registration ?

Sure, and the later two potentially. Registration of course, as its tied to the rego number and can appear as lapsed straight away. Road tax not so much, however if there is say 6+ months since the last purchased of over 1000kms theres a good chance if its a daily driver it could well be over so it may well be checked.

RunningMan

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#635570 4-Jun-2012 18:02

surfisup1000:

I'd like to see more effort put into getting the real criminals, as opposed to the minor indiscretions that many people make on a day to day basis. The lady was breaking the law so she got a ticket, but, is that really the type of offence we want to concentrate on?

I thought this thread was about POLICE use of ANPR. The example you keep using is a city council enforcing parking regulations - a big difference.

surfisup1000:

ANPR could be great for chasing down stolen vehicles. Put them on the motorways, have a cop car just down from the camera receiving the cars of interest and chasing them down.

Motor vehicle conversion is not a minor crime in my opinion. It has a huge impact on the victim (having had several cars stolen over the years).

From those that have posted the usage of current camera(s) that seems to be exactly what they are used for.

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#635588 4-Jun-2012 18:39

Can anyone tell me in which parts of the country these camera devices are being used?.

gzt

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#635589 4-Jun-2012 18:41

After a small initial spike - the effect on professional criminals will be minor. Just a moments thought will tell you they will find easy ways to work around ANPR.

This knowledge will eventually trickle down to the less professional career criminal mentality as well. ANPR will certainly have an effect but it will not eliminate the types of crime mentioned.

From a privacy perspective - abuses of police data systems are fairly common. I've never heard of one picked up by internal auditing systems at the source - I suspect these systems are primitive or non-existent. Those who have been caught have been picked up co-incidently as part of unrelated investigations. These issues are not unique to the police. IRD has had more publicity and probably have better internal auditing as a result.

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#635625 4-Jun-2012 19:35

gzt: After a small initial spike - the effect on professional criminals will be minor. Just a moments thought will tell you they will find easy ways to work around ANPR.

This knowledge will eventually trickle down to the less professional career criminal mentality as well. ANPR will certainly have an effect but it will not eliminate the types of crime mentioned.

From a privacy perspective - abuses of police data systems are fairly common. I've never heard of one picked up by internal auditing systems at the source - I suspect these systems are primitive or non-existent. Those who have been caught have been picked up co-incidently as part of unrelated investigations. These issues are not unique to the police. IRD has had more publicity and probably have better internal auditing as a result.

While ANPR will not pick up everything it is another tool in the NZ Police's arsenal, always good.

Abuses of the Police NIA (National Intelligence Application) may or may not happen regularly. However the Police are *very* pro-active now about checking requests. Its not uncommon (in fact it is very standard) for staff to be pulled up 6 months later and asked to clarify each check they did on a particular day/week. Comms staff in particular are heavily monitored to protect peoples privacy and receive significant training around appropriate use. Unfortunately there will always be a rogue staff member or two but the efforts are being put in.

josephhinvest

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#635629 4-Jun-2012 19:52

My concern with cameras and equipment like this becoming more frequently used, is how is the data retained and secured.
Who has access to the data, for how long is it stored? Does it go into a big database where one could call up all recorded observations for a particular car? Who would have access to this data?
Also how securely is the data stored, and where?

In saying that - tracking stolen vehicles, expired warrants or road miles, outstanding arrest warrants, disqualified drivers etc, these are all fine in my opinion.

Cheers,
Joseph

gzt

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#635637 4-Jun-2012 20:06

I doubt the system is useful for outstanding arrest warrants and disqualified drivers. A person may own a car without being present in the vehicle.

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kingjj

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#635639 4-Jun-2012 20:13

gzt: I doubt the system is useful for outstanding arrest warrants and disqualified drivers. A person may own a car without being present in the vehicle.

True, but cars can be flagged for anything which includes known to be driven by disqualified drivers etc. Any flag will trigger the system, its up to the staff present to decide whether its worth stopping or not.

As for the data security question, I'd assume its treated the same way as all other queries. All queries against the database are logged along with QID/requesting unit and time/date. Perhaps if you are concerned/interested Joseph you could write a letter to the Police Commissioner requesting more information around data privacy/security. Contact info is on the Police website.

SteveON

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#635660 4-Jun-2012 21:01

change plates... simple.

kingjj

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#635694 4-Jun-2012 22:04

SteveON: change plates... simple.

And when the plates don't match the vehicle? Where do you get the new plates? If you are savvy enough to swap plates for an identical car with the new plates being of nil interest than your probably either paranoid or a professional crim. ANPR's another tool, its not the be all and end all of Police technology.

SteveON

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#635705 4-Jun-2012 22:36

kingjj:
SteveON: change plates... simple.

And when the plates don't match the vehicle? Where do you get the new plates? If you are savvy enough to swap plates for an identical car with the new plates being of nil interest than your probably either paranoid or a professional crim. ANPR's another tool, its not the be all and end all of Police technology.

my understanding is that the system only bring up an alert. does it also do make and model checking?

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