How do Tosh Computers manage to avoid GST being charged?

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#1356102 31-Jul-2015 14:57

Geektastic:
mattwnz:
Bung: For some products they claim to be acting as agents for an overseas firm. Then it's their impression that most product never gets caught by Customs.

Quote from 3 years ago

" Incoming product should be held by NZ Customs for GST assessment, but that never happens, so it is the 'taxman' that creates this opportunity for NZ customers, not us"

If that is the case, then why is that happening. The Taxpayer is missing out on tax to pay for schools and health etc, so we all have to pay more in tax though GST rises etc, to pay for the shortfall. I am all for paying my fair share of taxes and if everyone did, we wouldn't have the need for so many charities.

Part of the problem is that tax is not really fair - most of it is paid by a very small minority. A bit OT.

I'm more curious how they manage it than morally outraged.

You could always ask the IRD, as they should know. But I presume if you are buying it for business purposes, you couldn't then claim back GST, as you wouldn't have proof that you paid GST on it, which is required when claiming GST back.

Wade

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#1356121 31-Jul-2015 15:22

There is only two ways this could happen, one they undervalue invoices to bypass customs = fraud, or else they pay GST like every other volume importer and the whole "No GST" is just some marketing hype

wellygary

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#1356122 31-Jul-2015 15:23

According to their website and comfirmed by Companies.govt.nz and this WP thread from a number of years ago

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1425169

Tosh is run by one of the MBAs lecturer from Waikato University, who was made a member of the NZ order of merit last year, so its certainly not a fly-by-night crowd

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503343&objectid=11380573

nakedmolerat

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#1356123 31-Jul-2015 15:24

Wade: There is only two ways this could happen, one they undervalue invoices to bypass customs = fraud, or else they pay GST like every other volume importer and the whole "No GST" is just some marketing hype

I have the feeling it is the second one.

mattwnz

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#1356125 31-Jul-2015 15:28

nakedmolerat:
Wade: There is only two ways this could happen, one they undervalue invoices to bypass customs = fraud, or else they pay GST like every other volume importer and the whole "No GST" is just some marketing hype

I have the feeling it is the second one.

It is probably like other retailers who have GST free sales from time to time, When in reality it is a 15% off sale/discount. So I presume you could still claim back the GST on the price paid, if purchased for business purposes.

hsvhel

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#1356149 31-Jul-2015 16:08

Im out tomorrow with a customs officer incidentally for some other business. will ask the question and see what he thinks.

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Geektastic

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#1356152 31-Jul-2015 16:12

hsvhel: Im out tomorrow with a customs officer incidentally for some other business. will ask the question and see what he thinks.

That would be cool.

Bung

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#1356159 31-Jul-2015 16:28

wellygary: According to their website and comfirmed by Companies.govt.nz and this WP thread from a number of years ago

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1425169

Tosh is run by one of the MBAs lecturer from Waikato University, who was made a member of the NZ order of merit last year, so its certainly not a fly-by-night crowd

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503343&objectid=11380573

Not being a fly-by-nighter doesn't mean you aren't an expert in sharp practices. Maybe the Order of Merit was for showing other businesses how to lead the IRD on a merry dance. My quote was from that gentleman explaining that GST free was courtesy of a Customs loophole not Tosh.

nathan

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#1356195 31-Jul-2015 17:23

mattwnz:
nakedmolerat:
Wade: There is only two ways this could happen, one they undervalue invoices to bypass customs = fraud, or else they pay GST like every other volume importer and the whole "No GST" is just some marketing hype

I have the feeling it is the second one.

It is probably like other retailers who have GST free sales from time to time, When in reality it is a 15% off sale/discount. So I presume you could still claim back the GST on the price paid, if purchased for business purposes.

you have to pay the GST to be able to claim it back in the first place.

You can't claim GST back on imports that you haven't paid GST on

mattwnz

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#1356289 31-Jul-2015 19:27

nathan:
mattwnz:
nakedmolerat:
Wade: There is only two ways this could happen, one they undervalue invoices to bypass customs = fraud, or else they pay GST like every other volume importer and the whole "No GST" is just some marketing hype

I have the feeling it is the second one.

It is probably like other retailers who have GST free sales from time to time, When in reality it is a 15% off sale/discount. So I presume you could still claim back the GST on the price paid, if purchased for business purposes.

you have to pay the GST to be able to claim it back in the first place.

You can't claim GST back on imports that you haven't paid GST on

Although wouldn't be surprised if people do claim back GST (maybe by mistake), especially for lower cost online services from the US.

Technofreak

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#1357004 2-Aug-2015 10:37

Wade: There is only two ways this could happen, one they undervalue invoices to bypass customs = fraud, or else they pay GST like every other volume importer and the whole "No GST" is just some marketing hype

I'm inclined to think the latter.

Why would they ship from Hawaii to New Zealand when their website says "We ship worldwide from one of our depots in the UK, USA, Australia, New Zealand and Italy". Coal...Newcastle?

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Bung

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#1357063 2-Aug-2015 11:53

One of Tosh Computers replies to the GST question several years ago was

ToshComputers 3 years ago
Well, you better check your facts, because we have a letter from the IRD confirming that when we act as an agent for our US store and the US store ships directly to the NZ client, then no GST has to be charged, since we are not the seller. It always pays to first ask questions or check the facts before you conclude, so that you don't look silly.

IANAL but it seems to me that if it was that simple everyone would be doing it. Tosh seems to be an E-commerce operation run by a Law Professor so he's probably structured it very carefully. "Our US store" probably is just the source of the day that is supplying the stock.

I wonder if the passage of time has resulted in any changes to the IRD opinion and how successful Tosh customers are at getting their purchase through Customs.

nathan

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#1357081 2-Aug-2015 12:23

right so they should change this so that it is factually accurate rather than obfuscating the fact that 15% GST is due at the border

unless they really are paying the GST for you and this is just marketing

hsvhel

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#1357516 3-Aug-2015 09:07

Geektastic:
hsvhel: I'm out tomorrow with a customs officer incidentally for some other business. will ask the question and see what he thinks.

That would be cool.

Showed the website to my associate. They are of two opinions:
1-they're under valuing on import
2-Including the GST portion in the buy price shown as tax free and clearing the GST amount through a differed account. This will not show on your "invoice" and the GST remains paid accordingly.

More likely the latter, and its just a cheeky sales wind up. May have sparked their attention to have a look at them more closely though!

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Bung

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#1357617 3-Aug-2015 10:35

You need to add Tosh's YouTube clip as Exhibit B. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySg1PUy9tK4

If the "GST free" computer was being sent directly from an off shore location surely there should be some form of Customs clearance. Even if this was done by the couriers there should be some paper work.

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