Another sad day for France

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#1593493 16-Jul-2016 11:29

Geektastic:

There is ample and widely reported evidence that terrorists used the influx of refugees as cover. As was blindingly obvious to anyone, to be honest. Whether THIS attack is their responsibility or that of their fellow travellers is somewhat academic.

I'll dispute that. Every single attack in France has been done by someone who is a French or Belgian citizen.

How exactly refugees who have no knowledge of these people can, or can be used to, "provide cover" is not "blindingly obvious"... in fact, I can't see the connection at all. Perhaps you could elucidate?

Blaming refugees for the actions of French citizens is even more ludicrous than blaming the rest of the French population.

Rikkitic

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#1593494 16-Jul-2016 11:32

Geektastic:

It warned that a “staggering number” of EU citizens have travelled to Syria to fight with Isil and that they are now posing as refugees to gain entry to Europe.

Daily Telegraph

In its usual fashion, the Daily Telegraph does not let facts or even logic get in the way of its Colonel Blimp view of the world. If that "staggering number" are already EU citizens, they hardly need to pose as refugees to gain entry to Europe.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

nunz

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#1593496 16-Jul-2016 11:39

I too have serious doubts this is a terrorist act. While France ' president is still talking terror the minister for the interior is stating no links.

The Guardian reports people are looking for links but also notes links for some attacks in the past are very tenuous.

This has none of the hallmarks of a terror attack other than a man with a mosley name from a part of the world where Mohammed is as common as the Spanish Jesus.
1. No history of radicalisation
2. Lone attacker -not a group. Other than suicide bombers, most attacks involving firearms or other weapons eg vehicles - are a group effort.
3. No message or marters (spelling) video.
4. 11pm as not the height of crowdedness
5. No significance to the location
6. Bad interactions with others on say of attack. Jihadists avoid confrontation and stay anonymous on the way to an attack.
7. Uniformly bad report on his character - which could be media slant but is more common for head cases than terrorists.

The real terrorists here seem to be the media and the politicians making political coin out of this.

This is a sad day for not just France but all humans. However I'm pretty sure it's not a terror attack and everyone reporting it is, is helping terrorize others and radicalize feelings towards Muslims and immigrants. That is the real terrorist act here

afe66

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#1593516 16-Jul-2016 12:21

DarthKermit:
Well, how do you decide when someone is a "terrorist"?

Trying to kill as many people as you can like Mohammed here did ticks the box for me.

For me a terrorist acts with a clear political intent to their actions.

Just because you kill people doesn't make you a terrorist.

Serial killers are not called terrorists, nor strangely the American gun nuts who carry out mass shootings.... They are called gunman which shows that merely killing people doesn't make to a terrorist.

Deciding to call someone a terrorist has a political deminsion too, potentially daemonizing a section of the population.

A.

MikeB4

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#1593532 16-Jul-2016 13:31

My heart goes to those who have lost love ones.

DarthKermit

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#1593534 16-Jul-2016 13:37

Indeed MikeB4. At the end of the day who cares what label is applied to the guy who did this. 84 people are dead and hundreds are injured.

davidknz

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#1593542 16-Jul-2016 14:32

Oh well, it did say <Off Topic>

The use of a truck as a weapon of attack, as happened in Nice,

is quite accurately defined in Inspire, on line al-Qaeda's magazine.

Page 54 reads

"To achieve maximum carnage, you need to pick up as much speed as you can while still retaining good control of your vehicle in order to maximize your inertia and be able to strike as many people as possible in your first run. ..."

There is more detail at Moon of Alabama or, if you are feeling brave, and don't mind the NSA checking you out Issue Number 2.

Apologies to Mauricio Freitas if this it too off topic , but its a good demonstration of the power of the internet for both good and bad

:-)

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

JWR

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#1593557 16-Jul-2016 15:51

davidknz:

Oh well, it did say <Off Topic>

The use of a truck as a weapon of attack, as happened in Nice,

is quite accurately defined in Inspire, on line al-Qaeda's magazine.

Page 54 reads

"To achieve maximum carnage, you need to pick up as much speed as you can while still retaining good control of your vehicle in order to maximize your inertia and be able to strike as many people as possible in your first run. ..."

Of course al-qaeda and ISIS didn't invent terrorism.

The practice of terrorism comes from many sources.

Some of it from Western Government sources.

davidknz

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#1593625 16-Jul-2016 18:01

True indeed

For a short (3min) light hearted summary of a serious topic, try https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgAVpPNusTs

davidknz

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#1593628 16-Jul-2016 18:04

DarthKermit:

I think once you get to 10+ posts you're able to do hyperlinks.

I've done 12, but it still won't do process my ARef stuff

davidknz

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#1593635 16-Jul-2016 18:35

JWR:

Of course al-qaeda and ISIS didn't invent terrorism.

The practice of terrorism comes from many sources.

Some of it from Western Government sources.

Something like this ??

I think its called BlowBack

DaveB

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#1593643 16-Jul-2016 18:54

DarthKermit:

Indeed MikeB4. At the end of the day who cares what label is applied to the guy who did this. 84 people are dead and hundreds are injured.

At least he was finally dealt with ....... sent straight back to hell where he belongs. I do tend to struggle with the death penalty, but in this case you can't help but feel that some people just do not deserve to continue stealing our air any longer.

dafman

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#1594090 17-Jul-2016 17:49

Geektastic:

dejadeadnz:

In the face of your own admission that you have no evidence that the so called "all and sundry"* had anything to do with this attack, you simply choose to repeat the same, well-known quotes reflecting the known challenges of addressing the world's collective need to do more for the refugees whilst being realistic about the connected security challenges. It's a nice deflection but it's not working. More importantly, even if the EU had porous borders, it is simply not morally responsible to just do nothing for the refugees.

But all this stuff is an aside. What's most troubling is that in a thread where everyone else have chosen to be quite respectful in the face of real, serious suffering and tragedy, you apparently see fit to inject your usual conclusory, anti-immigration rhetoric that only ever focuses on the problems created without regard for the serious, moral crises that such policies are designed to address.

* The fact that you would so dehumanise such a large number of people, many of whom undoubtedly genuinely escaping from real persecution or even threats to their very existence, is also rather telling.

I don't share any collective need to do anything about refugees personally. If they dislike what is happening in their own countries, I suggest that they deal with it rather than run away from it. This will mean some will get killed doing so, as per the French Revolution, American Civil War, English Civil War etc etc.

It may not be a trendy view or popular with Virtue Signallers around the world, but it's a view that - in Europe at least - is certainly gaining in popularity.

"I suggest they deal with it rather than run away from it"

Words fail me. I had drafted a much longer response yesterday, but was in Hong Kong and Geekzone had blocked my IP address from posting. Good thing, on reflection, I would have probably been banned from the site if I had been able to post what I had drafted.

tdgeek

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#1594127 17-Jul-2016 18:30

dafman:

Geektastic:

dejadeadnz:

In the face of your own admission that you have no evidence that the so called "all and sundry"* had anything to do with this attack, you simply choose to repeat the same, well-known quotes reflecting the known challenges of addressing the world's collective need to do more for the refugees whilst being realistic about the connected security challenges. It's a nice deflection but it's not working. More importantly, even if the EU had porous borders, it is simply not morally responsible to just do nothing for the refugees.

But all this stuff is an aside. What's most troubling is that in a thread where everyone else have chosen to be quite respectful in the face of real, serious suffering and tragedy, you apparently see fit to inject your usual conclusory, anti-immigration rhetoric that only ever focuses on the problems created without regard for the serious, moral crises that such policies are designed to address.

* The fact that you would so dehumanise such a large number of people, many of whom undoubtedly genuinely escaping from real persecution or even threats to their very existence, is also rather telling.

I don't share any collective need to do anything about refugees personally. If they dislike what is happening in their own countries, I suggest that they deal with it rather than run away from it. This will mean some will get killed doing so, as per the French Revolution, American Civil War, English Civil War etc etc.

It may not be a trendy view or popular with Virtue Signallers around the world, but it's a view that - in Europe at least - is certainly gaining in popularity.

"I suggest they deal with it rather than run away from it"

Words fail me. I had drafted a much longer response yesterday, but was in Hong Kong and Geekzone had blocked my IP address from posting. Good thing, on reflection, I would have probably been banned from the site if I had been able to post what I had drafted.

Post away DF. It cant be any worse than the human race trying to destroy itself, which is what is happening these days. We have created so much progress, technology (and thats not talking IT), yet here we are, doing what we can to take ourselves apart.

freitasm

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#1594130 17-Jul-2016 18:46

davidknz:

DarthKermit:

I think once you get to 10+ posts you're able to do hyperlinks.

I've done 12, but it still won't do process my ARef stuff

You don't do A href in the rich text. You either use the buttons or you use BBCODE as shown here. You only use A href if you are using text only boxes without the rich text editor.

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