California legalises marijuana

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Awrrr
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#1667232 10-Nov-2016 10:55

MikeB4:
nathan:

NZ is stupid on this issue. Alcohol is legal, why? how many men beat up their wives when drunk? how many people crash their cars driving drunk.

how many stoners do the same thing?

tax it, use the money for drug education and hard reduction programs.

My son is a Psychologist and has other medical qualifications. He can talk for hours why it should not be legal. NZ is not stupid at all.

Perhaps he would like to control my diet. Lots of unhealthy things there. Sometimes I drive too fast. Maybe he should stand at the corner and clock me.

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Rikkitic

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#1667244 10-Nov-2016 10:58

1eStar: My friend was in Oregon recently. He said it was disturbing how many stoned people were wandering around the streets. And would be strongly opposed to it being legalised anywhere.

http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2016/06/oregon_marks_1_year_anniversar.html

I was in New Zealand recently. Disturbing how many drunks there are staggering around the streets. Maybe we should make it illegal. Oh, wait, that has been tried...

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Rikkitic

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#1667245 10-Nov-2016 11:00

robjg63:

60 minutes (tv2 on momday night?)had an article on the legalisation in the states.

The first couple of states that allowed it are seeing some bad effects.

Organised crime has moved in to start commercial farming - they think they are 'hiding in plain sight'.

They are very worried about increasing numbers of stoned drivers because they have no on the spot tests.

One doctor said he has seen an alarming increase in babies being born with high levels of THC - when the mothers are asked they say - it cant be that bad - its legal now.

There was also an increased number of hospital admissions from 'younger' people. One specialist said - the only good thing about alcohol is that it doesnt stay in your body. THC binds to the fats cells and sticks around for a long time. The brain is nearly all fat. THC is well noted as causing brain development issues and apparently the human brain does not finish that process until the late 20s.

I have no problem with controlled medical use if it has some proven value. I am not sure about making it a recreational product.

It has been a recreational product for years.

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CYaBro

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#1667247 10-Nov-2016 11:07

robjg63:

One doctor said he has seen an alarming increase in babies being born with high levels of THC - when the mothers are asked they say - it cant be that bad - its legal now.

So is alcohol and cigaretes but most women know they shouldn't be using either when pregnant.

Lots of babies being born with meth in their system too, and that isn't legal.

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

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#1667249 10-Nov-2016 11:07

Rikkitic:

MikeB4:
nathan:

NZ is stupid on this issue. Alcohol is legal, why? how many men beat up their wives when drunk? how many people crash their cars driving drunk.

how many stoners do the same thing?

tax it, use the money for drug education and hard reduction programs.

My son is a Psychologist and has other medical qualifications. He can talk for hours why it should not be legal. NZ is not stupid at all.

Perhaps he would like to control my diet. Lots of unhealthy things there. Sometimes I drive too fast. Maybe he should stand at the corner and clock me.

No, he does think anyone who uses the rubbish will, end up a burden on our health system. He tells me the affect the drug has on the cognitive abilities and decision making of the users will lessen their ability to correctly assess the risk to their well being and those around them thus taking away their ability to change.

Your food affects you but seldom kills others. Your admitted anti social driving does so that is something you can address. It does not need a Psychologist to tell you that.

I do take the advice of a professional with 4 degrees including first class honours and distinctions, years of training and study, peer assessments of his papers over pot smokers.

frankv

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#1667366 10-Nov-2016 13:48

MikeB4:

No, he does think anyone who uses the rubbish will, end up a burden on our health system. He tells me the affect the drug has on the cognitive abilities and decision making of the users will lessen their ability to correctly assess the risk to their well being and those around them thus taking away their ability to change.

Your food affects you but seldom kills others. Your admitted anti social driving does so that is something you can address. It does not need a Psychologist to tell you that.

I do take the advice of a professional with 4 degrees including first class honours and distinctions, years of training and study, peer assessments of his papers over pot smokers.

Of course, against all of this is his parentage and upbringing.

But really, I'd like to know his definition of "use". Having grown up in the 70s, I'd say that there aren't many people in NZ who haven't "used" cannabis at some point.

OTOH, we will almost all end up a burden on the health system (unless we're killed outright by RikkiTic in a car accident)... most health spending occurs in the last 6 months of a person's life.

Many things (e.g. TV, political speeches, inadequate nutrition, alcohol, greed, music) affect the cognitive abilities and decision making of people and lessen their ability to correctly assess the risk to their well being and those around them. Are you going to ban all of them too?

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#1667408 10-Nov-2016 14:38

frankv:

MikeB4:

No, he does think anyone who uses the rubbish will, end up a burden on our health system. He tells me the affect the drug has on the cognitive abilities and decision making of the users will lessen their ability to correctly assess the risk to their well being and those around them thus taking away their ability to change.

Your food affects you but seldom kills others. Your admitted anti social driving does so that is something you can address. It does not need a Psychologist to tell you that.

I do take the advice of a professional with 4 degrees including first class honours and distinctions, years of training and study, peer assessments of his papers over pot smokers.

Of course, against all of this is his parentage and upbringing.

But really, I'd like to know his definition of "use". Having grown up in the 70s, I'd say that there aren't many people in NZ who haven't "used" cannabis at some point.

OTOH, we will almost all end up a burden on the health system (unless we're killed outright by RikkiTic in a car accident)... most health spending occurs in the last 6 months of a person's life.

Many things (e.g. TV, political speeches, inadequate nutrition, alcohol, greed, music) affect the cognitive abilities and decision making of people and lessen their ability to correctly assess the risk to their well being and those around them. Are you going to ban all of them too?

No, we brought up our kids to be free thinkers.

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Rikkitic

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#1667410 10-Nov-2016 14:41

Here is a surprise. Significant numbers of young people have been smoking pot in Holland for years. That is a country that has a far more generous public health system than we do, yet it is not overburdened by decrepit drug users. In fact, most of those pot smokers are students who go on to become concert musicians, politicians, sociologists, and yes, even psychologists, and many continue to enjoy the occasional toke well into old age. Of course some also just go on the dole and never amount to anything, very much like any cross-section of society. The question I always come back to is what is it about New Zealand that makes us so much more vulnerable and in need of excessive protection from the nanny brigade? I am not arguing that drugs of any kind are good for us, though some actually may be in the right circumstances. I am arguing that rational adults who are considered capable of making their own decisions do not want self-appointed moral guardians dictating their behaviour.

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MikeB4

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#1667414 10-Nov-2016 14:47

Have you ever worked in an area dealing with the aftermath of drug and alcohol use?

Rikkitic

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#1667423 10-Nov-2016 15:05

MikeB4:

Have you ever worked in an area dealing with the aftermath of drug and alcohol use?

Not as a professional. Peripherally as a volunteer. When you do work in such an area, you tend to mainly see the worst cases, not the much greater numbers who use these substances recreationally and still manage to live productive lives.

There always seems to be an implied assumption in these discussions that making something illegal somehow magically prevents people from using it. All it does is make it more expensive, provide a gold mine for the gangs and criminals who sell it, and ruin the lives of those who do get caught using it and end up in prison. Making it illegal does not solve anything. It doesn't keep it out of anyone's hands. It is not a solution. All the emotional worst-case arguments in the world won't change that.

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MikeB4

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#1667427 10-Nov-2016 15:10

I don't think NZ is at a stage where we can consider this, remember the chaos and damage of the "legal high" experiment?

robjg63

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#1667474 10-Nov-2016 15:37

Geektastic:

robjg63:

60 minutes (tv2 on momday night?)had an article on the legalisation in the states.

The first couple of states that allowed it are seeing some bad effects.

Organised crime has moved in to start commercial farming - they think they are 'hiding in plain sight'.

They are very worried about increasing numbers of stoned drivers because they have no on the spot tests.

One doctor said he has seen an alarming increase in babies being born with high levels of THC - when the mothers are asked they say - it cant be that bad - its legal now.

There was also an increased number of hospital admissions from 'younger' people. One specialist said - the only good thing about alcohol is that it doesnt stay in your body. THC binds to the fats cells and sticks around for a long time. The brain is nearly all fat. THC is well noted as causing brain development issues and apparently the human brain does not finish that process until the late 20s.

I have no problem with controlled medical use if it has some proven value. I am not sure about making it a recreational product.

OTOH adults should be able to make decisions for themselves and there is no logic in allowing adults (pregnant or otherwise) to consume 10 bottles of vodka a month and at the same time jail them for smoking a doobie on the deck.

Then that applies to handguns, asbestos, playing chicken on the roads as well. No rules for anything?

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SepticSceptic

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#1667476 10-Nov-2016 15:40

MikeB4:

I don't think NZ is at a stage where we can consider this, remember the chaos and damage of the "legal high" experiment?

That was bad ganga - not even natural - it was adulterated, untested chemicals.

robjg63

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#1667477 10-Nov-2016 15:40

Rikkitic:

Here is a surprise. Significant numbers of young people have been smoking pot in Holland for years. That is a country that has a far more generous public health system than we do, yet it is not overburdened by decrepit drug users. In fact, most of those pot smokers are students who go on to become concert musicians, politicians, sociologists, and yes, even psychologists, and many continue to enjoy the occasional toke well into old age. Of course some also just go on the dole and never amount to anything, very much like any cross-section of society. The question I always come back to is what is it about New Zealand that makes us so much more vulnerable and in need of excessive protection from the nanny brigade? I am not arguing that drugs of any kind are good for us, though some actually may be in the right circumstances. I am arguing that rational adults who are considered capable of making their own decisions do not want self-appointed moral guardians dictating their behaviour.

Actually, the Netherlands has very low drug usage figures compared to many other countries. They actually have good public awareness campaigns on the bad effects.

Its the tourists that go crazy.

Sorry - first results I could find on google:

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Netherlands_v_US#sthash.ui8ntA3I.dpbs

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

Geektastic

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#1667478 10-Nov-2016 15:40

robjg63:

Geektastic:

robjg63:

60 minutes (tv2 on momday night?)had an article on the legalisation in the states.

The first couple of states that allowed it are seeing some bad effects.

Organised crime has moved in to start commercial farming - they think they are 'hiding in plain sight'.

They are very worried about increasing numbers of stoned drivers because they have no on the spot tests.

One doctor said he has seen an alarming increase in babies being born with high levels of THC - when the mothers are asked they say - it cant be that bad - its legal now.

There was also an increased number of hospital admissions from 'younger' people. One specialist said - the only good thing about alcohol is that it doesnt stay in your body. THC binds to the fats cells and sticks around for a long time. The brain is nearly all fat. THC is well noted as causing brain development issues and apparently the human brain does not finish that process until the late 20s.

I have no problem with controlled medical use if it has some proven value. I am not sure about making it a recreational product.

OTOH adults should be able to make decisions for themselves and there is no logic in allowing adults (pregnant or otherwise) to consume 10 bottles of vodka a month and at the same time jail them for smoking a doobie on the deck.

Then that applies to handguns, asbestos, playing chicken on the roads as well. No rules for anything?

Not entirely sure that was what I suggested....

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