Should people like this be helped?

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#2081103 29-Aug-2018 21:13

If you mean should the alleged journalist that wrote that hopeless excuse for the English language be helped, then yes. "Self induced coma"?! "remove a section of after doctors.." (sic)

Tinkerisk

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#2081119 29-Aug-2018 21:40

Emergency breaks all rules.

They are your fellows in a foreign country which need help at first - and nobody said that's for free. I don't care about insurances since they are just money making businesses dropping quite fast to keep the balance on their side.

But it must be clear from the beginning that the help is really a help, not a giveaway. If they raise money before or later on or sell their house to pay it back - nothing to tell against it.

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#2081124 29-Aug-2018 21:54

I'm all for helping them if in return there is law that requires all travellers overseas (leaving or arriving in New Zealand) must take out comprehensive travel insurance in much the same way that in Australia that there is compulsory third party vehicle insurance.

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Rikkitic

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#2081125 29-Aug-2018 21:56

I find it a little disheartening that so many people are so quick to refuse help to someone in serious trouble because they didn't dot the right 'i's or it might cost money or (horrors) set a precedent.

There used to be a time when we sprang to help others regardless of the circumstances or who was to blame or whether they 'deserved' it or not. This is not a minor issue of some hippy who ran out of money overseas and wants a free trip home. These are people in serious trouble (or is a coma not enough for you?) and the attitudes expressed here are quite frankly shameful.

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Geektastic

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#2081127 29-Aug-2018 22:08

Rikkitic:

I find it a little disheartening that so many people are so quick to refuse help to someone in serious trouble because they didn't dot the right 'i's or it might cost money or (horrors) set a precedent.

There used to be a time when we sprang to help others regardless of the circumstances or who was to blame or whether they 'deserved' it or not. This is not a minor issue of some hippy who ran out of money overseas and wants a free trip home. These are people in serious trouble (or is a coma not enough for you?) and the attitudes expressed here are quite frankly shameful.

I'm sure they will take your cheque...

tardtasticx

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#2081129 29-Aug-2018 22:13

I too think there should be ways to help people in these situations. Whether tax payers foot the bill, or whether a loan is provided that must be paid back (similar to a student loan), this would be a hard one and dependent on circumstances I think.

In this case it really sank in for me, since my dad went through something similar last year but thankfully he was in NZ so we didn't have the added stress of having to get him home and somehow pay for it all. Having to stress about whether he would live, or be the same person when he woke up, that was enough of an emotional roller coaster to last a lifetime. If we were stuck overseas at the time it all went down, I would hope we would have some way of getting back without selling our kidneys to fund it.

We don't know all the facts at this stage about insurance, there could be a range of issues (they under-insured and knew it / they didn't know about the pre-existing condition / the insurance company are playing hard ball etc), but in the meantime that family is still over there and a mother is fighting for her life.

Edit: and yes I put my money where my mouth is and contributed to their Givealittle campaign. It certainly isn't going to pay for the lot but it will help I'm sure.

Lias

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#2081131 29-Aug-2018 22:22

I've had an elderly relative have a medical misadventure overseas, not quite to the same degree as this, but still necessitating hospital stays, and another family member to fly over and escort them home afterwards. It was totally covered by insurance, because said relative had paid an absolute fortune for cover because of her age and medical history. My understanding is the person in this case declared preexisting medical conditions, and and then I suspect has declined to pay the premiums demanded because of the risk. so has not received cover for certain events. They appear to have gambled and lost, so I really do have bugger all sympathy for them.

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quickymart

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#2081132 29-Aug-2018 22:24

Problem is, if these people get helped in this situation, then another lot will want help, then another, then you end up with people going overseas and doing irrational things and not thinking about the consequences, only thinking "it doesn't matter how much I screw this up, I'm fine, the Government will totally bail me out!"

They have setup a Givealittle page and I can see plenty of donations there, so I would say that's probably the best way to get the help they're looking for.

Just my 2c.

Bung

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#2081133 29-Aug-2018 22:25

scuwp: Sorry it’s a no from me. They purchased insurance and they would have been well aware that the pre existing condition was not covered yet they still took the risk and went anyway. I am sure this happens more than we know, just that others don’t go running to the media expecting handouts. If private citizens want to donate then great, but should not be up to the government

I gather that the pre existing condition was some sort of breathing problem. The reason she initially went into hospital in Bali was a twisted bowel that needed emergency surgery. I don't see any mention that she had any idea that this bowel problem existed. The out for the insurance company seems to be that 48 hrs after the surgery she developed acute respiratory distress syndrome. There's no mention that the travel insurance is covering any of the hospital cost at all even for events unrelated to the pre existing condition.

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"What is a pre-existing condition?
We consider a pre-existing condition to be any illness or injury which you are aware of, or a reasonable person in your circumstances ought to have been aware of, for which advice (including awaiting test results), care, treatment, medication or medical attention has been sought, given, or recommended within the last 3 years, regardless of whether a medical diagnosis has been made."

Rikkitic

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#2081138 29-Aug-2018 22:53

No taxpayer money to help citizens in genuine trouble because it is needed for more important things like this. Good to know we have our priorities right.

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Fred99

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#2081142 29-Aug-2018 23:11

Is there a medical expert with full knowledge of her case actually suggesting she should be flown home?

An assumption that the treatment that she's getting where she is is "inferior" in some way, and that her chances of survival would be improved despite the risks of an ~8 hour flight back to NZ, seems optimistic.

"As of August 30, Mr Hartley is an overstayer in Indonesia and is tossing up whether to pay the overstaying fee or fly out of the country to come back in with a new visa"

WTF? Has he actually spoken to Indonesian authorities? Under the circumstances I'd be gobsmacked if they wouldn't offer an extension - and anyway the fee is only $40 / day when the overall suggested cost is >$200,000. Doesn't add up to me.

networkn

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#2081145 29-Aug-2018 23:19

Rikkitic:

I find it a little disheartening that so many people are so quick to refuse help to someone in serious trouble because they didn't dot the right 'i's or it might cost money or (horrors) set a precedent.

There used to be a time when we sprang to help others regardless of the circumstances or who was to blame or whether they 'deserved' it or not. This is not a minor issue of some hippy who ran out of money overseas and wants a free trip home. These are people in serious trouble (or is a coma not enough for you?) and the attitudes expressed here are quite frankly shameful.

I assume based on this, you made a sizeable contribution to assist then?

Tinkerisk

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#2081153 30-Aug-2018 01:26

What would the answer change in your behavior?

epr

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#2081155 30-Aug-2018 05:58

Yes if someone has taken care to try to mitigate against this sort of situation we as New Zealanders should help and look after them. This would imo require greater investigation than a poorly written news article might be able to do however I feel if you want to ask for help from New Zealand you should be open to investigation by the NZ government into your situation before the help is granted. So in this particular case I cannot say but in general we should help New Zealanders who are in trouble overseas.

throbb

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#2081157 30-Aug-2018 06:26

The fact that
1. The family doesn't go more into why the insurance won't pay
2. The newspaper doesn't slam the insurance company for not paying (since when has any newspaper these days failed to Slam any big corporation)
leads me to believe the family was fully aware of the pre-existing condition and accepts the insurance companys assessment.

Im not for the government helping in cases like this, if you help one person you will have to help everyone, no way you could draw a line on who to help and who not to, and there is no way we could afford to help everyone.

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