Wills - How to Choose an Executor

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#2964736 8-Sep-2022 17:23

Eva888: Am wondering if it would be legally binding to write a very simple will ones self, witnessed by two people. I, Insert name, leave my house, car and all my money and shares bla bla to Joe Bloggs. Signed and witnessed. Surely that would be clear enough to a judge. I looked at some NZ online Will templates that were quite complex Our old wills are so out of date and so many pages of waffle long it’s time to consider alternatives. Our old lawyer retired and we haven’t needed such services.

I'm not a lawyer (and my comment should only be taken is my opinion on the matter). From what I've read when I was researching for my will. A simple written statement of your wishes for your estate can be taken as your will. However it is more open to debate and legal challenge than something officially drawn up under legal advice. So while doing what you propose might be easier for you right now. It might cause a lot more stress and legal costs etc later on - all depending on if anybody is going to challenge your wishes etc.

Eva888

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#2964748 8-Sep-2022 18:11

alavaliant:
Eva888: Am wondering if it would be legally binding to write a very simple will ones self, witnessed by two people. I, Insert name, leave my house, car and all my money and shares bla bla to Joe Bloggs. Signed and witnessed. Surely that would be clear enough to a judge. I looked at some NZ online Will templates that were quite complex Our old wills are so out of date and so many pages of waffle long it’s time to consider alternatives. Our old lawyer retired and we haven’t needed such services.

I'm not a lawyer (and my comment should only be taken is my opinion on the matter). From what I've read when I was researching for my will. A simple written statement of your wishes for your estate can be taken as your will. However it is more open to debate and legal challenge than something officially drawn up under legal advice. So while doing what you propose might be easier for you right now. It might cause a lot more stress and legal costs etc later on - all depending on if anybody is going to challenge your wishes etc.

Joe Bloggs and the kids should be happy then. My Will would be pretty basic with no secret offspring that could cause a stir. I suspect having a simple one paragraph Will is better than nothing at all and would suffice should a meteorite fall on me before I can get a proper lawyerly one.

mdf

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#2964833 8-Sep-2022 20:35

From the Community Law link above:

To be valid, your will must be:

in writing, and
signed at the end by you and two witnesses, with all three being present together, and with all three seeing each other sign, and
intended by you to take effect as a will, and
completed when you have legal capacity.

Any will is better than no will (* some exceptions apply).

For straightforward scenarios like leaving everything to a spouse and if they pre-decease you, in equal shares to your kids (and not a blended family, no secret spouse and/or children etc.) you can probably deal with most of it yourself. However the advantage of online DIY tools (and obviously fully bespoke wills from a lawyer) is that they can prompt you to think about certain things that might not otherwise occur to you - e.g., do you have a previous will = you should formally revoke your previous will.

Wills are most likely to become an issue where there complex family dynamics. Timmy decides it is an outrage that Great Auntie Kimmy's grandfather clock got left to Jimmy instead of him and will rain fire and brimstone down on interfamilial harmony to prove it. Ideally people should be open with their families about what the will says. You might be gone but you can leave behind chaos because you didn't tell Timmy about chronological destinations (especially if you were avoiding it because you knew he would be a d1ck about it). If this applies, you might want to speak to a lawyer. If you really don't want to say something to family in advance, consider writing a letter to your heirs to be opened with the will to explain your bequest of horological heirlooms.

More seriously, if you're considering things like an uneven split (e.g. 70:30 split Jimmy/Timmy), specific bequests, leaving it all to a cat shelter instead of your ingrate relatives or any other "surprises" once you're gone, it is well worthwhile speaking to a lawyer.

MikeAqua

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#2964956 9-Sep-2022 09:44

mdf:

a blended family

This definitely makes it more complicated. We are wrestling with this at present.

E.g. If I die, the properties go to my SO. Then when she dies they go to her kids and mine miss out etc. Or she gets a new SO or ....

The instruments most people use to get around these (trusts, lifetime tenancy provisions etc) can be clumsy and expensive.

Good advice is hard to find. I've talked to couple of lawyers about this, but they seemed more interested in setting up future revenue stream for their firm than actually being helpful.

Mike

deadlyllama

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#2964961 9-Sep-2022 09:58

MikeAqua:

mdf:

a blended family

This definitely makes it more complicated. We are wrestling with this at present.

E.g. If I die, the properties go to my SO. Then when she dies they go to her kids and mine miss out etc. Or she gets a new SO or ....

The instruments most people use to get around these (trusts, lifetime tenancy provisions etc) can be clumsy and expensive.

Good advice is hard to find. I've talked to couple of lawyers about this, but they seemed more interested in setting up future revenue stream for their firm than actually being helpful.

That was our mess, with an intestacy to boot. I could go on about it but I won't. We created a trust out of the intestacy, with Public Trust as the trustee, with a primary purpose to provide housing to Dad's widow while this was required.

You could have the option of forming a trust, with you and one or more others as trustees, and appoint your replacement trustee in your will. Yes, it all costs money... you can ask for estimates of costs though.

Eva888

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#2964970 9-Sep-2022 10:28

Now to find two witnesses that aren’t likely to die first and who will still be around to confirm their witnessing should there be some legal questions. That cuts out almost everyone of some substance that we know.

I like the idea of a letter accompanying a short Will. I think kind words of comfort and something personal to counter the legalese gives warmth to a sad time. Often it’s what’s missing after someone dies and everyone is thinking I wish I had visited more or all the other regrets that rear up at funerals where the relatives and friends read an obituary. How wonderful for the congregated to hear the actual words of the now demised read out.

mdf

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#2964975 9-Sep-2022 10:41

This definitely makes it more complicated. We are wrestling with this at present.

E.g. If I die, the properties go to my SO. Then when she dies they go to her kids and mine miss out etc. Or she gets a new SO or ....

The instruments most people use to get around these (trusts, lifetime tenancy provisions etc) can be clumsy and expensive.

Good advice is hard to find. I've talked to couple of lawyers about this, but they seemed more interested in setting up future revenue stream for their firm than actually being helpful.

There are some real horror stories in this vein. I struggle to believe where some people are coming from. The charitable part of me says grief has compromised their decision making.

Not my area of expertise, so take this with a grain of salt, but if you have a third person you trust absolutely (e.g. child, sibling, close friend) a trust is likely to be the most robust protection against the type of concern you've identified. But absolutely they are harder (i.e. more expensive) to manage. And they've gotten worse under the new tax rules. Everything has upsides and downsides. I'm not sure where you're physically located, but if you PM me I might be able to make a referral.

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mdf

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#2964977 9-Sep-2022 10:44

Eva888: Now to find two witnesses that aren’t likely to die first and who will still be around to confirm their witnessing should there be some legal questions. That cuts out almost everyone of some substance that we know.

I like the idea of a letter accompanying a short Will. I think kind words of comfort and something personal to counter the legalese gives warmth to a sad time. Often it’s what’s missing after someone dies and everyone is thinking I wish I had visited more or all the other regrets that rear up at funerals where the relatives and friends read an obituary. How wonderful for the congregated to hear the actual words of the now demised read out.

Long story but a will doesn't become invalid if your witness pre-deceases you. However almost all law firms will witness documents for no charge (most not all, so you might like to call ahead). If you draw up your documents ahead of time (but don't sign them) and pop in to a law firm, they will probably send up a couple of junior associates to witness them for you. That is often easiest if you're struggling to find two independent people (i.e. who aren't named in the will).

FineWine

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Nurse (R)

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#2965076 9-Sep-2022 12:23

mdf:

If I can also make a plug for enduring powers of attorney. Losing your mental capacity can almost be worse than dying, but just IMO. Not needed for everyone, but if you have a partner and/or kids, something to consider.

Further information:

Community Law wills
Community Law EPAs
Online will and EPA generator (disclaimer: a couple of buddies of mine run this website; there are other options - but typically "free" isn't really zero cost).

Well mentioned.

When we lived in Aussie for 30 years my partner and I had a will each plus a "Living Will" each. The "Living Will" was a legal grey area but it told of our wishes. All this was witnessed and signed by the Clerk of the Courts. This was due to their laws and our gay relationship.

On return to NZ we had these wills and our wishes, rewritten by a lawyer into Kiwi legalise which included an EPA for finance and health & welfare. We then, as before, gave a copy to significant others on both sides of our family.

You have to get it right. If one dies then the other or reverse or if you both die together. Throw the switch if quality of life has gone.

Its is your life and you are the only one who knows what you want, you just have to tell others in a clear, concise, non-confusing way.

Don't forget to inform family and significant others what you want done with your body - burial or cremation or donation to science. Even pre-write your service - religious or non-religious, type of coffin, music, songs etc.

All this really saves a lot of hassle for others when you have passed and will make for a more happy occasion.

Our life's should celebrated not mourned or create division and angst.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

invisibleman18

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#2965117 9-Sep-2022 14:27

tdgeek:

I am one, the Will is simple, but the Will is not the issue, people do funny things when money is involved (the lawyer said this also at the beginning) , and in my case, I am still shocked about it.

"Show me the money"

Never again

Always find it sad how instead of uniting in grief and sharing the good memories, the end of a person's life so often comes down to people arguing over how much of their money they believe they are entitled to, and families break apart over it. In many cases, you're better off to just spend it while you can or give it all away so there's nothing left for people to fight over.

Probably should get around to making one. I've never bothered since I don't own anything significant, but now that I'm married it's probably worthwhile. It would be a pretty simple "leave all to my wife" instruction.

MikeAqua

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#2966021 12-Sep-2022 09:26

tdgeek:

people do funny things when money is involved (the lawyer said this also at the beginning) , and in my case, I am still shocked about it.

When you get into this space people often say: "There is one in every family".

It's strange how people's grief gets entangled with their base materialistic instincts.

In my family, that person is a sibling of mine, they're a total PITA and I've basically washed my hands of them. Life is too short.

Mike

invisibleman18

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#2966044 12-Sep-2022 10:35

Had a similar sort of family split over the last year - basically after my wife's Father passed away during Level 4, her brother (and his wife and 3 kids) decided to remove themselves from the family in a really nasty way, the day after the funeral was allowed to happen. It wasn't will or money related (her Mum is still here and everything was joint so just goes to her anyway) but was clearly something they had planned to do but wouldn't whilst he was alive to see it. So it's been an especially rough time for the MIL effectively losing her son and grandchildren as well as husband. Obviously not our place to tell her what do with her affairs, but as she has my wife and her brother set up as joint EPOAs the worry is this goes on for say 10 years then something happens, and he can reappear and start deciding everything.

Eva888

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#2966173 12-Sep-2022 14:35

Thinking about Wills opens a great can of worms. Was just reading on a lawyers website about how long probate takes which is from 6 months to a year during which time all assets are frozen including bank accounts of the deceased. In the case of one spouse dying and they have joint bank accounts wouldn’t this cause hardship to the remaining spouse. Imagining all the auto payments for internet and power, rates etc. How can one manage to future proof this happening.

MikeAqua

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#2966181 12-Sep-2022 14:49

Eva888: Thinking about Wills opens a great can of worms. Was just reading on a lawyers website about how long probate takes which is from 6 months to a year during which time all assets are frozen including bank accounts of the deceased. In the case of one spouse dying and they have joint bank accounts wouldn’t this cause hardship to the remaining spouse. Imagining all the auto payments for internet and power, rates etc. How can one manage to future proof this happening.

This is why joint accounts for living costs etc are very important. We get our income paid into our joint account and my 'pocket money' and savings transfer out of it. If I die my partner can simply stop all the outgoing payments and transfer funds from our joint account into hers, and make sure her salary gets paid into her account.

In a case where someone is gravely ill, you move money around etc before they die.

Mike

mdf

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#2966191 12-Sep-2022 15:35

Joint accounts with a single signatory are usually fine - either person should be able to operate it.

But accounts where one person is the "owner" and the other person a cardholder or junior partner can cause problems. This happened to my Mum when Dad passed. Credit card (which was in his name) was cancelled. Along with some stupendous amount of airpoints which were automatically cancelled on his death.

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