IPCA Outcome of Auckland Police Shooting

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#3068547 27-Apr-2023 21:37

Handle9:

I think it's more likely that the officer was absolutely terrified and reacted poorly rather than having any intent. Unfortunately when guns are involved the consequences of getting it wrong are terrible.

In the end we will never know.

thats more than likely. seen it in usa cop shootings.

don't forget the IPCA report of bully tactics and scaremongering of police staff by senior police staff. then police attitude of all legal firearm owners are crims, add in nz police woeful amount of firearm training, even AOS, and then you have a recipe for shoot first ask question later.

imagen the situation if they got the wrong house (as that was in the news recently) and it was a home owner with his own legal firearm. just because someone has a gun doesn't mean they deserve to be killed. that why there is procedures and training, something police severally lack.

the weird thing is police wanting to be armed "for protection". if you think firearms is going protect a police officer you have failed.

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#3068551 27-Apr-2023 21:51

If you shoot at people then confront the police holding a gun, don’t come crying to me if you get shot.

Doh.

Daynger

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#3068610 28-Apr-2023 00:09

tweake:

Handle9:

I think it's more likely that the officer was absolutely terrified and reacted poorly rather than having any intent. Unfortunately when guns are involved the consequences of getting it wrong are terrible.

In the end we will never know.

thats more than likely. seen it in usa cop shootings.

don't forget the IPCA report of bully tactics and scaremongering of police staff by senior police staff. then police attitude of all legal firearm owners are crims, add in nz police woeful amount of firearm training, even AOS, and then you have a recipe for shoot first ask question later.

imagen the situation if they got the wrong house (as that was in the news recently) and it was a home owner with his own legal firearm. just because someone has a gun doesn't mean they deserve to be killed. that why there is procedures and training, something police severally lack.

the weird thing is police wanting to be armed "for protection". if you think firearms is going protect a police officer you have failed.

I highly doubt a homeowner with a legal firearm would come out his front door to greet the police with his firearm, especially when the AOS is outside and calling orders through a loud hailer.

Any sane person would comply because they would know its a mistake and it would all get cleared up.

We are not in the position of the US where every man and his dog have multiple firearms and are pretty keen to use them for "self defense", or where police shooting first is six officers emptying 17 round clips into whatever the perceived threat is, then no questions asked.

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#3068950 28-Apr-2023 16:23

Daynger:

I highly doubt a homeowner with a legal firearm would come out his front door to greet the police with his firearm, especially when the AOS is outside and calling orders through a loud hailer.

Any sane person would comply because they would know its a mistake and it would all get cleared up.

We are not in the position of the US where every man and his dog have multiple firearms and are pretty keen to use them for "self defense", or where police shooting first is six officers emptying 17 round clips into whatever the perceived threat is, then no questions asked.

i'm not saying its a realistic situation. just saying that they are going into unknown situations where a lot of things can happen. what if someone took the gun off the guy and walked out to give it to police?. like the guy who got shot reaching for his license, cop thought he was reaching for a gun.

a sane person would comply but they never gave him time to comply, thats the problem that they found. it was "hands up, bang your dead". shooting before there was a real threat to the police and thats often because they have not been trained to overcome that normal self preservation instinct of "possible threat shoot first". plus your not dealing with sane normal people, it takes skill and work to get good outcomes of these situations.

networkn

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#3068953 28-Apr-2023 16:52

Was he previously advised to exit the house without a firearm? Seems exceptionally likely they asked him to leave the house unarmed. Coming out armed is an aggressive action.

Handle9

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#3069039 28-Apr-2023 20:29

networkn: Was he previously advised to exit the house without a firearm? Seems exceptionally likely they asked him to leave the house unarmed. Coming out armed is an aggressive action.

The information is all inside the IPCA report.

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#3069538 30-Apr-2023 16:16

Handle9:

networkn: Was he previously advised to exit the house without a firearm? Seems exceptionally likely they asked him to leave the house unarmed. Coming out armed is an aggressive action.

The information is all inside the IPCA report.

I went and had a look at previous rulings, all the way back to December 2022 and can't find it. I am either blind or looking in the wrong place.

It seems exceptionally unlikely they didn't tell him to come out unarmed, and incredibly poor judgement after discharging a weapon, to leave your home carrying a loaded weapon (regardless of how it was carried) knowing you have armed police outside.

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#3069539 30-Apr-2023 16:23

https://www.ipca.govt.nz/includes/download.ashx?ID=164287

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#3069547 30-Apr-2023 16:48

Lias:

https://www.ipca.govt.nz/includes/download.ashx?ID=164287

Thanks. It doesn't say specifically that they told him to exit the house unarmed, but I am sure if they hadn't it would have been mentioned as it would have been a gross oversight.

could this have been resolved non-fatally, quite possibly, likely? Not as much I don't think. He had discharged a weapon and was seen reloading the weapon, and came out of the house, carrying said weapon, after making aggressive comments.

As sad as this is, if it's a choice between a police officer and a person carrying a gun that is loaded and has previously discharged, I'd rather the police take the cautious approach and protect themselves.

Sad for everyone involved, and an incredibly difficult situation.

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#3069597 30-Apr-2023 17:03

It's easy to judge when you have months to collect, test, and consider evidence by a panel of people after the fact. The poor cop had no more than 2 seconds to make the very same decision, adrenaline pumping, and fearing for his and other lives. Sad for everyone involved.

I recall a saying... "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"

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Wellingtondave

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#3070553 2-May-2023 16:57

We, the public should be doing more to support the Police. Bring a firearm out inappropriately, get dropped.

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#3070558 2-May-2023 17:26

The common catch cry was "Only in America" It seems that every 3rd day there is a shooting in NZ

tweake

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#3070559 2-May-2023 17:27

Wellingtondave:

We, the public should be doing more to support the Police. Bring a firearm out inappropriately, get dropped.

support them how?

can't do their job for them, they arrest you for that. especially if you use a firearm, thats double trouble. plus all legal firearm owners are considered crims by police anyway. so the last thing you ever want to do is help police out by dropping someone.

edit: i forgot, standard crim practice is to use that against people, ie shoot you because your carrying a firearm to your car to go hunting. also the standard practice of provoking someone to do something so you have an excuse to attack them.

tweake

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#3070560 2-May-2023 17:31

tdgeek:

The common catch cry was "Only in America" It seems that every 3rd day there is a shooting in NZ

pretty much daily at times.

that 100 million or so spent buying new guns for people is working out really well. about as good as "meth is just a small time party drug" or "family violence is not a problem in NZ".

networkn

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#3070564 2-May-2023 17:59

tdgeek:

The common catch cry was "Only in America" It seems that every 3rd day there is a shooting in NZ

Not to mention it feels like we haven't had a single day in the last 9 months where there hasn't been a ramraid, robbery or assault related to one of the above.

If only we had a group in NZ who was responsible for dealing with crime prevention....

On the plus side, we did get rid of the single-use plastic bags from supermarkets...

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