Would you live in an armed fortress?

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#3253661 26-Jun-2024 21:03

gzt:
tweake: but of course nz is so woke that if such a system actually stopped an intruder, you would be dragged through the courts and punished. self defense may be legal, but that doesn't stop them punishing you for doing so.

typically you'd be killing junk mail deliverers, religious door knockers and an occasional FedEx delivery, someone who got the wrong address, etc.

Wokeness aside for a moment that ain't even legal in Texas:

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/tablet-stops-bullet-when-texas-man-shoots-at-door-to-door-salesman-204053573518

we are talking about people who break into your home, not people who knock on your door. if those types of people are breaking into your home, they are thieves in disguise, and in texas they do shoot them. thats legal and often encouraged in texas.

shooting someone knocking on your door is not legal and in that case in that video is probably race related issues.

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#3253665 26-Jun-2024 21:42

Similar with this guy in Kansas. The householder claimed the victim put his hand on the door handle. The householder was not initially charged:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/27/us/ralph-yarl-gma-interview/index.html

Luckily the victim in that case survived to tell his story. Race issues again.

Wheelbarrow01

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#3253681 26-Jun-2024 23:34

The most unlikely people may already live in a fortress of sorts - it's just that nobody notices.

A case in point is the friend of a friend who passed away of natural causes in his 80's. A lovely old guy who I had met several times over the years. At the time of his death, a loaded sawn off shotgun was found under his bed.

The gent in question was a lifetime angler and keen hunter, so there is no doubt he knew how to use it. He held a firearm licence, but a loaded sawn off under the bed? There's no licence endorsement to cover that scenario....

This was a man of advancing years and increasing frailty who lived alone, so we can only assume he wanted to make sure that if anyone broke in or otherwise sought to harm him "in his castle", that he'd at least have a fighting chance....

As illegal as it was, a small part of me admires the spirit of the old buggar to not go down without a fight....

Lias

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#3253690 27-Jun-2024 00:45

I didn't necessarily mean turning an urban household into a fortress, although that would still be kind of cool. Since reading about what's now the "Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute" as a teenager my "dream home" has always been something like a disused military base, bunker or missile silo. I was always a bit sad NZ has never had a surplus of nuclear bunkers to sell off cheaply like in other places, the "CyberBunker", "Pionen", etc.

Wheelbarrow01:

..he wanted to make sure that if anyone broke in or otherwise sought to harm him "in his castle", that he'd at least have a fighting chance....

NZ's lack of castle law or any sort of robust self defense law has always annoyed me. Good on the old fella.

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Rikkitic

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#3253712 27-Jun-2024 08:22

Lias:

NZ's lack of castle law or any sort of robust self defense law has always annoyed me. Good on the old fella.

America has robust self defense laws. Do you really want to live like that? More than 21,000 Americans murdered by gun in 2021 according to Pew Research.

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johno1234

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#3253735 27-Jun-2024 10:07

Rikkitic:

Lias:

NZ's lack of castle law or any sort of robust self defense law has always annoyed me. Good on the old fella.

America has robust self defense laws. Do you really want to live like that? More than 21,000 Americans murdered by gun in 2021 according to Pew Research.

"Castle Doctrine"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

tweake

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#3253777 27-Jun-2024 12:25

Wheelbarrow01:

The most unlikely people may already live in a fortress of sorts - it's just that nobody notices.

A case in point is the friend of a friend who passed away of natural causes in his 80's. A lovely old guy who I had met several times over the years. At the time of his death, a loaded sawn off shotgun was found under his bed.

The gent in question was a lifetime angler and keen hunter, so there is no doubt he knew how to use it. He held a firearm licence, but a loaded sawn off under the bed? There's no licence endorsement to cover that scenario....

This was a man of advancing years and increasing frailty who lived alone, so we can only assume he wanted to make sure that if anyone broke in or otherwise sought to harm him "in his castle", that he'd at least have a fighting chance....

As illegal as it was, a small part of me admires the spirit of the old buggar to not go down without a fight....

well nz police are not there to save you, "serve and protect" doesn't exist here. you have to look after yourself first. unfortunately crims also use that against you, hence why police are so against self defense. crims will make an excuse to attack you and even call police claiming your the attacker. once you stop laughing at that, it is actually true and happens quite a bit.

i don't advocate guns under the bed, there is a lot of risks of bad outcomes for that.

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tweake

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#3253781 27-Jun-2024 12:37

Rikkitic:

Lias:

NZ's lack of castle law or any sort of robust self defense law has always annoyed me. Good on the old fella.

America has robust self defense laws. Do you really want to live like that? More than 21,000 Americans murdered by gun in 2021 according to Pew Research.

thats really more of a function of society than self defense laws. if they took away self defense laws then murder rates will go way up. if i remember right the places in usa with tight gun control have the worse crime stats. exactly why that is somewhat debatable. the thing that annoys me is that its "murdered by gun". many kiwis don't care if someone gets stabbed to death, but outcry if its by gun. your life is valued different depending on what weapon is used to end it, like your going care. thats just weird.

tweake

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#3253789 27-Jun-2024 12:43

Lias:

I didn't necessarily mean turning an urban household into a fortress, although that would still be kind of cool. Since reading about what's now the "Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute" as a teenager my "dream home" has always been something like a disused military base, bunker or missile silo. I was always a bit sad NZ has never had a surplus of nuclear bunkers to sell off cheaply like in other places, the "CyberBunker", "Pionen", etc.

i would avoid those old sites. i would much rather have a house built as a house that functions as a house.

people make houses out of old sheds, stys, milking sheds etc. but those places all have issues. like contamination from all the chems used in farming. concrete floors that have rising damp, structure that was never built well as it was only a shed. heavy metals and chems from ammunition that was stored in the bunker. all the stuff that soaked into the walls that will leach out over decades.

Rikkitic

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#3253797 27-Jun-2024 13:05

tweake:

thats really more of a function of society than self defense laws. if they took away self defense laws then murder rates will go way up. if i remember right the places in usa with tight gun control have the worse crime stats. exactly why that is somewhat debatable. the thing that annoys me is that its "murdered by gun". many kiwis don't care if someone gets stabbed to death, but outcry if its by gun. your life is valued different depending on what weapon is used to end it, like your going care. thats just weird.

Murder is murder but it takes a lot of determination to mow down a hundred people with a knife. Guns are great equalisers. Even an infant with a gun can destroy a hulking gangster. So can the mentally ill, the personality deficient, the excessively nervous, the family cat, the acid tripper, anyone and everyone who can apply pressure to a trigger. 'Gee officer, he touched my door handle. They came up my driveway. They looked like criminals.'

Murdered by gun means something. It is real. It is horrible. Worst of all, it is easy. That is what makes guns far far worse than knives and other death devices.

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gzt

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#3253799 27-Jun-2024 13:13

tweake: if i remember right the places in usa with tight gun control have the worse crime stats.

the short answer is, no.

tweake

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#3253803 27-Jun-2024 13:27

Rikkitic:

tweake:

thats really more of a function of society than self defense laws. if they took away self defense laws then murder rates will go way up. if i remember right the places in usa with tight gun control have the worse crime stats. exactly why that is somewhat debatable. the thing that annoys me is that its "murdered by gun". many kiwis don't care if someone gets stabbed to death, but outcry if its by gun. your life is valued different depending on what weapon is used to end it, like your going care. thats just weird.

Murder is murder but it takes a lot of determination to mow down a hundred people with a knife. Guns are great equalisers. Even an infant with a gun can destroy a hulking gangster. So can the mentally ill, the personality deficient, the excessively nervous, the family cat, the acid tripper, anyone and everyone who can apply pressure to a trigger. 'Gee officer, he touched my door handle. They came up my driveway. They looked like criminals.'

Murdered by gun means something. It is real. It is horrible. Worst of all, it is easy. That is what makes guns far far worse than knives and other death devices.

without going into the whole gun debate, its not as easy as you pretend it is and the bit you left out is knives are even easier. plus one of the big problems with knives is they are very very easy to conceal, which is the single biggest factor for crims. places where there is very strict gun control there is very high knife crime. simply swapping one tool for another. but one is more palpable to certain peoples sensibility than the other. its much easier to ignore the one thats not loud and noisy.

neb

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#3253846 27-Jun-2024 14:54

Lias: Hypothetically, assuming that you had sufficient funds and the law allowed it, would you live in an armed and or armoured residence?

Ask anyone from somewhere like South Africa and 99% of them will tell you they'd give almost anything not to have to live in an armed and armoured residence.

neb

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#3253847 27-Jun-2024 14:58

Rikkitic: (Note to outraged Manila residents: that was then, I can't speak about now.

It hasn't changed much. Friend of mine's wife is from there and when he went to visit it required a very sharp reeducation to not get himself killed on day one. Same with Rio de Janeiro and other places.

gzt

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#3253852 27-Jun-2024 15:18

neb: It hasn't changed much. Friend of mine's wife is from there and when he went to visit it required a very sharp reeducation to not get himself killed on day one. Same with Rio de Janeiro and other places.

Often one of those things where locals and people familiar internalize the 'rules' and feel relatively safe day to day. There are doubtless a few things you can do there that are just not sensible in NZ and vice-versa.

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