Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 

neb

neb
11294 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #3340255 7-Feb-2025 19:15
Send private message

Tinkerisk: However, the fact that readers can read existing data such as card number and expiry date has been shown by the (state-run) Bundpol test and development laboratory in various tests that it is indeed possible.

 

It's really not hard to do, it's a popular party trick among hackers.  Also the distance isn't set, the usual quoted 10-15cm or whatever ("a few inches") is just what any worst-case cheap-junk reader should be able to manage.  Just as with Bluetooth where you can connect over distances of a mile or more (you can see that experiment was done in the US), with NFC you can also get much longer ranges with bigger antennas, better electronics, and more power.  The biggest problem over longer distances is ground clutter, which is why one security researcher proposed using the Aricebo telescope (before it collapsed) to try and read a tag in low earth orbit.




Tinkerisk
4228 posts

Uber Geek


  #3340257 7-Feb-2025 19:21
Send private message

neb:

 

Tinkerisk: Just put a second card with NFC215 (something cheap or blank is sufficient) to or near the first one. If two or more cards receive energy at the same time, they all respond at the same time, which leads to confusion at the NFC reader. 

 

No they don't, that's what anticollision is for.  In theory a reader should be able to talk to each card in turn.  The fact that there are some readers which are badly programmed and can't get it right is a bug, not by design.

 

 

I meant this in addition to the shielding film, which I assume is a basic requirement. The question was whether this is sufficient (according to my experiments, it is. But I did only use an iPhone as a NFC reader/programmer, not specialized equipment).

 

Not all cards have anti-collision and some of the energy is also absorbed by the (second) dummy card. There are also different frequency ranges, which are not all covered at the same time. So, all together not either or.

 

 





- NET: FTTH, OPNsense, 10G backbone, GWN APs, ipPBX
- SRV: 12 RU HA server cluster, 0.1 PB storage on premise
- IoT:   thread, zigbee, tasmota, BidCoS, LoRa, WX suite, IR
- 3D:    two 3D printers, 3D scanner, CNC router, laser cutter


Tinkerisk
4228 posts

Uber Geek


  #3340260 7-Feb-2025 19:37
Send private message

neb:

 

Also the distance isn't set, the usual quoted 10-15cm or whatever ("a few inches") is just what any worst-case cheap-junk reader should be able to manage.  Just as with Bluetooth where you can connect over distances of a mile or more (you can see that experiment was done in the US), with NFC you can also get much longer ranges with bigger antennas, better electronics, and more power.  The biggest problem over longer distances is ground clutter, which is why one security researcher proposed using the Aricebo telescope (before it collapsed) to try and read a tag in low earth orbit.

 

 

I can just imagine scammers following you around a shopping centre with a radio telescope. 😉





- NET: FTTH, OPNsense, 10G backbone, GWN APs, ipPBX
- SRV: 12 RU HA server cluster, 0.1 PB storage on premise
- IoT:   thread, zigbee, tasmota, BidCoS, LoRa, WX suite, IR
- 3D:    two 3D printers, 3D scanner, CNC router, laser cutter




neb

neb
11294 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #3340263 7-Feb-2025 19:42
Send private message

Yeah, that's the thing, when you can buy people's credit card info in thousand-card lots with free trials and a money-back guarantee and the rate-limiting factor is how fast you can cash them out, there's not much incentive to skim a single card.  So it'd be more a targeted attack on an access control card or similar.

 

For people wanting to see this, google "cvv dumps fullz".  The latest trend has been to use web page injection so you'll get hits in very unexpected places.


MurrayM
2456 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #3340901 10-Feb-2025 08:53
Send private message

Tinkerisk:

 

MurrayM:

 

Does it fully protect my card? I dunno. But I do know that an NFC reader app on my phone can read my card when it's out of the foil holder but not when it's in the holder, so it does seem to block it from being read. Maybe if the power was cranked up on the reader then it could read it through the foil.

 

 

Just put a second card with NFC215 (something cheap or blank is sufficient) to or near the first one. If two or more cards receive energy at the same time, they all respond at the same time, which leads to confusion at the NFC reader.

 

 

I only have one card that has a RFID chip in it. I try to carry as few cards as possible.


wellygary
8328 posts

Uber Geek


  #3340903 10-Feb-2025 09:06
Send private message

MurrayM:

 

I only have one card that has a RFID chip in it.

 

 

If you are worried enough, go buy yourself a bus card , dollars for donuts its RFID too!


MurrayM
2456 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #3340905 10-Feb-2025 09:09
Send private message

wellygary:

 

MurrayM:

 

I only have one card that has a RFID chip in it.

 

 

If you are worried enough, go buy yourself a bus card , dollars for donuts its RFID too!

 

 

Yeah I'm not really all that worried, I think the foil sleeve should be enough protection. I recently got rid of my old bus card now that we can use credit cards on the busses in Auckland.


 
 
 

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

neb

neb
11294 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #3341099 10-Feb-2025 14:36
Send private message

Tinkerisk: I can just imagine scammers following you around a shopping centre with a radio telescope. 😉

 

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

 

Seriously though, the risk is essentially zero since it's so easy to get bulk lots of card data from other sources.


neb

neb
11294 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #3341100 10-Feb-2025 14:38
Send private message

MurrayM: Yeah I'm not really all that worried, I think the foil sleeve should be enough protection. I recently got rid of my old bus card now that we can use credit cards on the busses in Auckland.

 

Speaking of which, anyone know how they negotiated clearing vast numbers of microtransactions without paying 200% of the value in processing fees?


Tinkerisk
4228 posts

Uber Geek


  #3341194 10-Feb-2025 17:11
Send private message

MurrayM:

 

I only have one card that has a RFID chip in it. I try to carry as few cards as possible.

 

 

Me too. But we have at least one electronic ID card, an electronic health insurance card (recently with a central electronic patient file), at least one bank card with an electronic payment function, electronic public transportation tickets, a driving licence with an NFC chip for car hire systems, a credit card, ... and everything else that comes along.

 

The electronic ID card is also the MFA key for electronic, secure communication with authorities, applications, tax returns, etc. and is therefore worth protecting as much as possible.

 

 

 

 





- NET: FTTH, OPNsense, 10G backbone, GWN APs, ipPBX
- SRV: 12 RU HA server cluster, 0.1 PB storage on premise
- IoT:   thread, zigbee, tasmota, BidCoS, LoRa, WX suite, IR
- 3D:    two 3D printers, 3D scanner, CNC router, laser cutter


1 | 2 
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic





News and reviews »

Air New Zealand Starts AI adoption with OpenAI
Posted 24-Jul-2025 16:00


eero Pro 7 Review
Posted 23-Jul-2025 12:07


BeeStation Plus Review
Posted 21-Jul-2025 14:21


eero Unveils New Wi-Fi 7 Products in New Zealand
Posted 21-Jul-2025 00:01


WiZ Introduces HDMI Sync Box and other Light Devices
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:32


RedShield Enhances DDoS and Bot Attack Protection
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:26


Seagate Ships 30TB Drives
Posted 17-Jul-2025 11:24


Oclean AirPump A10 Water Flosser Review
Posted 13-Jul-2025 11:05


Samsung Galaxy Z Fold7: Raising the Bar for Smartphones
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Samsung Galaxy Z Flip7 Brings New Edge-To-Edge FlexWindow
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Epson Launches New AM-C550Z WorkForce Enterprise printer
Posted 9-Jul-2025 18:22


Samsung Releases Smart Monitor M9
Posted 9-Jul-2025 17:46


Nearly Half of Older Kiwis Still Write their Passwords on Paper
Posted 9-Jul-2025 08:42


D-Link 4G+ Cat6 Wi-Fi 6 DWR-933M Mobile Hotspot Review
Posted 1-Jul-2025 11:34


Oppo A5 Series Launches With New Levels of Durability
Posted 30-Jun-2025 10:15









Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.