Price of Petrol: How far away is $2 / litre? Then $3 / litre?

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424 posts

Ultimate Geek

#412213 2-Dec-2010 18:46

M_I_C_H_A_E_L: Im glad I dont drive or have a car. Seems very expensive

It is. But driving changes your life. I once looked at a flat in Auckland, by bus. The whole trip (4 buses) took about 6 hours, and nobody was home when I arrived. By car, it would have taken about 1 hour.

The costs of owning are car are (these are approx, btw):

Per km (petrol, tyres, brakes etc) about 20c/km
fixed costs (insurance, wof, registration etc) about $10 a week
repairs: it depends on the age of the car, but maybe $5 a week for an older car
depreciation: the owner chooses this one, anywhere from $5 a week upwards (I've chosen $13 a week)

Owning a car changes your life, and being able to drive is very useful skill to have in times of emergencies or getting a job.

richms

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#412218 2-Dec-2010 18:51

20c per km would barely cover the fuel if you are in auckland traffic. I would rate it closer to a true cost of 30-35c per km.

Richard rich.ms

Linuxluver

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#412253 2-Dec-2010 20:32

wreck90: Petrol taxes are contributing more to increases than supplier cost increases.

Look to the govt for a start.

While we will run out of petrol one day, it won't be the end of the world. Electric cars will improve enough to replace gas engines.

I'm sure there will always be fuel reserved for the most important applications, such as shipping.

Electric cars need batteries and the biggest problem there is there isn't nearly enough lithium to go around. Bolivia supplies 50% of the world's lithium. There is talk we will run out of lithium in 10 to 15 years. It seems a crime to me that Everready make use-once, throw away lithium batteries.

What stupid monkeys we are.

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TinyTim

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#412266 2-Dec-2010 21:11

Linuxluver:
He's particularly harsh about fuel cells. The hydrogen required would take a up a lot of space in the vehicle, be highly dangerous, under *enormous* pressure...and instead of one truck filling up a fueling station, the equivalent hydrogen energy delivered would require 21 trucks....putting an enormous number of additonal vehicles on the roads....fueled by what?.....carrying an extremely dangerous, corrosive, constantly leaking highly flamable fuel. Then he talks about how much electricity is required to make the hydrogen...and the whole things starts to look like a complete nonsense.

An interesting article from IEEE spectrum a month or two ago: First Commercial Hydrogen Filling Station Opens. It generates its Hydrogen on-site using electricity generated using solar power. Basically generates the hydrogen as it goes -- no need for huge amounts of storage.

Sure it only has a capacity of 10 cars per day... but not bad for a 1st commercial station!

TinyTim

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#412267 2-Dec-2010 21:13

Linuxluver:
Electric cars need batteries and the biggest problem there is there isn't nearly enough lithium to go around. Bolivia supplies 50% of the world's lithium. There is talk we will run out of lithium in 10 to 15 years. It seems a crime to me that Everready make use-once, throw away lithium batteries.

What stupid monkeys we are.

A crime that we (in NZ) don't recycle batteries!

blakamin

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#412268 2-Dec-2010 21:16

langers1972:
Linuxluver: Makes Steven Joyce's "Holiday Highway" between Puhoi and Warkwarth look like a huge waste of money...and resources.

Not to mention the ****** "Road of National Significance" down here that's going to run straight through my lovely town

By the time it's built (for close to $0.5bn) we'll all be hovering about like Marty McFly wondering what the big black stripe is for

You're right! too much stuffing around!

Build it now and save not only money, but fuel and time!
Bloody road is overdue by 50 years!

(I live here too!)

If they ran buses that got me to work within 40 mins and home again in the same time, I'd take one. Before and after 14hrs at work, I am not going to spend 3 extra hours on public transport. no matter the cost

richms

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#412285 2-Dec-2010 22:17

TinyTim:
Linuxluver:?
Electric cars need batteries and the biggest problem there is there isn't nearly enough lithium to go around. Bolivia supplies 50% of the world's lithium. There is talk we will run out of lithium in 10 to 15 years. It seems a crime to me that Everready make use-once, throw away lithium batteries.

What stupid monkeys we are.

?

A crime that we (in NZ) don't recycle batteries!

Batteries are chemically inert pretty much, and other than the disposable lithium there is nothing of value in them to warrant recycling them. Mercury has been gone from disposables for a very long time.

Richard rich.ms

Equinox IT

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Linuxluver

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#412359 3-Dec-2010 08:51

blakamin:
If they ran buses that got me to work within 40 mins and home again in the same time, I'd take one. Before and after 14hrs at work, I am not going to spend 3 extra hours on public transport. no matter the cost

Definitely do-able. Toronto and Vancouver more or less do this already and have done for years. I'm sure other cities do, too, but these are two i have direct personal experience of.

The first time I lived in Toronto was late 1979 to late 1982. After 3 months I sold my car and went 100% public transport. The subway trains ran every 2 minutes at peak times and the buses that were based around subway stations basically ran one after the other at peak in a steady stream...and every 10 - 20 minutes off-peak, depending on the route and the day of the week. Bottom line was I could get to work in morning or evening in 15-20 minutes......and to drive would have taken nearly an hour in traffic. I had a monthly pass that cost me $30 (then - It's $115 now) and that allowed me to use all trains, buses or ferries at any time as often as I liked regardless of distance. If you wanted to borrow my Metro-pass that is perfectly OK....the only rule is one pass per rider. They are transferable.

WEBs are real. In Toronto, when they built the Wilson subway line, the day they announced it there were cows eating grass in a paddock where Wilson Station was to be. Yorkdale was empty fields. Today thee scene is VERY different with housing and businesses based around the transport hubs BECAUSE they are there. If you build good public transport, they will come.

One comment: The ticketing systems are simple and cheap. No chips to read. No $100 million "Snapper" smart card systems to track payments and use. They are a complete waste of money and help make public transport MORE expensive and LESS flexible. (But some corporate gets to rake in the cash and you get to pay for their means by which they do it). Pure Scam.

But the public transport system you ask for is easily do-able and will carry more people and be a lot cheaper than the "RoNS" Steven Joyce wants to build. There is no reason why we can't have inter-city public transport either.

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oxnsox

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#412373 3-Dec-2010 09:24

Electric cars need batteries and the biggest problem there is there isn't nearly enough lithium to go around. Bolivia supplies 50% of the world's lithium. There is talk we will run out of lithium in 10 to 15 years. It seems a crime to me that Everready make use-once, throw away lithium batteries.

Soo,.... is the real race, what we will run out of first as a fuel source (lithium/petrol) or finding a viable alternative???

langi27

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Ultimate Geek

#412502 3-Dec-2010 13:56

Interesting discussion, I've just downloaded the e-book so will start reading too.

Will there be an increased demand with India and Chinia waking up to the modern world? look at the Inidan car maker tata who are sellnig cars for a couple of grand.

on a side note I notice you misspelt Kunstler in your orignal post. Funny cos I while searhing for the title I thought how much of an unfortune name he had.

oxnsox

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#412527 3-Dec-2010 15:09

I understand there is much new exploration work around India (and South America). As after Obama put a halt on drilling in the Gulf the rigs left the area. They cost upwards of US$500,000 a day to operate so no-one wants them sitting idle.

tardtasticx

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#412529 3-Dec-2010 15:19

What annoys me, is that the petrol stations all rise the price of petrol as soon as the international price goes up, so they're selling the petrol left in the big tanks that they paid say $2.20/L for $3 so they make a huge profit until their big storage tanks need refilling

wellygary

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#412541 3-Dec-2010 16:07

tardtasticx: What annoys me, is that the petrol stations all rise the price of petrol as soon as the international price goes up, so they're selling the petrol left in the big tanks that they paid say $2.20/L for $3 so they make a huge profit until their big storage tanks need refilling

They actually make bugger all cash out of selling petrol/diesel at the retail level, their big $$$s are in the ice creams, drinks and whatever else they can cram into the store they make you go through to pay.

NokiaRocks

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#412560 3-Dec-2010 16:46

hopefully this; http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090406102555.htm will help relieve energy worries when it gets developed for mainstream use

richms

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#412575 3-Dec-2010 17:15

wellygary:
tardtasticx: What annoys me, is that the petrol stations all rise the price of petrol as soon as the international price goes up, so they're selling the petrol left in the big tanks that they paid say $2.20/L for $3 so they make a huge profit until their big storage tanks need refilling

They actually make bugger all cash out of selling petrol/diesel at the retail level, their big $$$s are in the ice creams, drinks and whatever else they can cram into the store they make you go through to pay.

Yeah, $3.40 for a small redbull which is only $3 at the dairy

Richard rich.ms

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